A lot of you keep saying 'its their choice'. True...but how many of these people get hurt when they lay their bikes down? All of them. And how many of us get up and say '&%#@!!!, and then walk away because we were wearing the right gear? Most of us. Some injuries are unavoidable due to the dynamics but can any of you imagine living without the skin on your hands for two/three months? I don't want to. And you know what, most of us (who wear the right gear!), can afford or have the proper insurance coverage for a spill. We know better. Do you have any idea how much we pay for these people in our premiums??? A lot!!! Kind of on a soap box here but irresponsible riders cost all of us. That's why we call them squids, right? Proper gear no matter what the temp, or don't ride.

I was thinking about our last ride on the coast after seeing this thread. No one was under-geared. And it's not even a rule. It's just responsible and that's what the riders of this group are. And it got frikken hot. No one undressed. Didn't even cross their minds.

All of you know a cop in one way or another. Ask one of them who they are going to be the most likely to give a break. A rider with full gear speeding or a rider in a t-shirt, shorts, tennis shoes, no gloves, and a crappy helmet. No brainer in my opinion. wswartzwel says he doesn't try to tell people what to do, but I think we all should as riders. I won't ride with someone without proper gear. I don't want to see the injuries.

I'm not in the insurance business. I do hate the premiums though. Think about it. Our bikes are about (maybe) one percent of the vehicles on the rode, but we pay the highest premiums. Thanks to squids.

Heck, Carlton wears that roadcrafter. Its got to kill him (he's very skinny) but he wears it just the same. All of us should follow his example every time we leave the house.

Okay, I'm done...

When I was teaching MSF classes in the '90s in Texas, of course we stressed the importance of eye protection but also were required to add that said eye protection was not required by TX state law. I always hoped that people would just use common sense, and reminded them that hitting a fly or a little stone at 60 mph could probably permanently take out an eye.

Mesh textile gear has been a revolution for my riding, right up there with electric gear for cold weather. During my recent Smoky Mt. trip on the KLR it was 95 degrees and humid going through Knoxville and all of a sudden I realized that I was perfectly comfortable - and that was 500 miles into that day's ride. The first long trip I'd ever taken in mesh gear, normally I'd be worn out by the heat at that point. Upon returning home I bought my wife a First Gear Mesh-Tex jacket like mine and she'll now actually ride with me on hot days. The availability of mesh riding gear is no excuse to ride unprotected on hot days anymore.

I've often wondered when passing riders with no gear if they look at me and say:
1. What an idiot, wearing all that riding gear, or;
2. That guy's got the right idea, I should do that but I'd be looked upon as a wimp by my riding 'culture' if I did that - image above all else! or;
3. I wonder what's on TV tonight.... :D

Bingo, My statement was "Don't want to tell others what to do when it comes to what they wear... But I do try to influence them to make wise choices whenever I can."


I have found that people don't like to be told, bossed, or ordered... And they usually will not listen to you when you approach an issue in that manner. They just go away mad, still bound and determined to ride without proper attire. However "Influence" is approaching them in such a way that actually changes the way they think, so THEY choose to change, and in the end would have them educated, and wearing proper gear. It takes more time and involvement to influence someone, but if done properly they may influence others and multiply..

ontario motor speedway, big banking turn #1. fell off going 120 plus (flat front tire).
slid, slid, slid...bounced a little, slid some more. slid on asphalt for about a week before i stopped. minor rash on a hip, a little burn on one palm.

daytona tri-oval banking, fell off again going scary fast. same deal...slid, slid, bounced, slid. about the only issue i had was a helmet that filled up with grass from the infield (those face shields make great grass cutters when you're belly-down at a hundred).

the only really big scar i have is a big star-shaped scar on one shoulder, the result of being high-sided in a chicane by a fellow competitor. i was wearing a tank top and shorts.
i was skating on rollerblades at the time.
seems kind of ironic that falling off at about 12 mph left permanent marks, but two big bails at over 120 left no momentos.

and no, i ain't gonna start wearing leathers while rollerblading.

Didn't mean to misquote you. It was late, or early depending on how you look at it :) I do have a question for you wswartzwel. Do you ride with people who are not wearing proper gear?

I still cringe when I see people riding w/o helmuts. I have some friends(harley riders) that do it aswell. I can`t get on them too much but I put it in a way thats kind of funny and gets the point a cross. I tell them to do the tap test. Get a hammer and lightly tap parts of your body now lightly tap your head. Any questions?

later dudes,
Lane

hey bngo~
i think that one's kind of hard one for anybody to answer, because "proper gear" is subjective.
like boots: i think over the ankle boots can qualify as proper gear, but they don't have to be motorcycle-specific boots.
same with the leather jacket. it might be a heavy leather jacket, but not made by a motorcycle company. in most cases, that jacket works for me.
i like to wear mechanics gloves. you can get 'em at walmart, but i think they still qualify, even though you can garden with 'em.

for some guys, wearing a face shield made of butyrate doesn't cut it, while lexan does. lots of people don't even know what their face shield is made from.

i can buy DOT stickers at the local hardly-ableson shop (they're in the display stand with all the other "helmet stickers"...yea right).

i draw the line at t-shirts, shorts and sandals, but i occasionally ride with guys in jeans and below-ankle shoes.

...on exceptionally rare occasions, there's this guy with a 2XL windbreaker, open face helmet, torn painter pants, vans tennies, sears work gloves and glass aviator goggles......but "that's just bob" and we've learned to leave ole' W.B. the hell alone.

on the other hand, i know guys who think the only proper riding gear is a full track suit, $400 boots, $350 gloves, $500 helmet, spine protector, knee braces, etc.....

maybe the more you ride, the higher your standard is for "proper riding gear".
when i was a newbie grommit, i went riding in gear that these days would would make me shudder. i used to be the guy that i shake my head at these days.

ps: yesterday...guy on sport bike at light, tank top, non-DOT swap meet helmet, shorts, flip-flops (not even sandals!), bike up on sidestand....and he was ever-so-busy text-messaging someone on his cell fone!

While buzzing along a twisty back country road, I passed and was passed (when I stopped to take pictures which I do regularly) about six times by a Harley guy and his wife on a big black full dresser - helmets bunjeed on the back case - not on their heads. He had a black t-shirt, mirrored shades and a shaved head and scowled at me the first time I passed and then refused to acknowledge me subsequent times I passed him, ignoring my waves. Later, I was refueling. He came in and queued up behind me at the only premium pump. I finished, smiled and politely pushed my bike aside so he could access the pump and went in to pay. He scowled and grunted. What a prick. He left a couple minutes before I did, waddling the bike out of the gravel lot with lots of jerky steering corrections. Woa - all the attitude but no skill, no experience and not confidence inspiring - it didn't look good. Five minutes later I was on my way. Two miles down the road construction started. The road surface was all chewed up. As I tooled through the "dirt" section up on the pegs, there was a big comotion ahead - cars stopping pulling on the shoulder, etc. I approached and pulled off. There he was, blood all over his face from a gash in the top of his head and his fore arm scraped raw, standing over his bike which was on it's side in the middle of the gravel lane. He was being swarmed by a half dozen folks already out of their cars. His wife was up and looked fine and aside from the heavy bleeding, he looked ok also. Very surreal scene - bright sun, vivid blood colors and chrome, very shiny. I wanted to take a pic and save it for those, "I don't need no helmet" discussions that crop up - but thought better of it. With all the folks stopped, whatever assistance I might lend was already being given so I continued on my way with my stomach in a knot, wondering if they'll ever learn.

Bingo,
I have 3 guys that I ride with... We have ridden together for years and years. Both street/trackdays, and off road, enduro/woods trails. We trust each other with our lives and often ride within inches of each other ... We all wear appropriate clothing. If I am riding, I ride with them, or I ride alone. I quit doing the organized group ride thing years ago, after some bad experiences... I tried one again 3 weeks ago with some guys on another forum that were local. I left early at the first gas stop, and later heard one of them got hurt badly ( He was wearing full gear, dayglow aerostitch but lost half a leg from an encounter with a sign post)

I have thought seriously about trying to make a triple crown event, because I enjoy the personality of your group. But I am still not sure riding in groups is the best way to safely enjoy motorcycling.


Since I limit who I ride with, your question really isn't applicable... Takes much less than "what they wear" for me to say NO


I have a small shop and when customers roll in for repair or parts, and they are helmetless... I make small talk, and ask questions about their bike, how they like it, where they ride, then shift the conversation to riding gear, and try to convince them to wear it. Hopefully they will come back for their next service fully dressed.

Paul - I'd bet money that rider's version to anyone who will listen will be that "Had no choice, I had to lay 'er down to avoid ________ ". His buddies will toast his heroism with more beer, he'll probably even convince himself of that and no, he'll never learn.

Confessions.... When I was carrying the shannon seat cowl, I waited for 4 hours for hdd3md to show up at our Hotel... I was starving, and did not suit up to ride the 3 blocks over to the Crab Shack/Steak Place I still wore a helmet though...

+1, more often than I should. The deli and such.

"Had no choice, I had to lay 'er down to avoid ________ ":

when i got my speedway racing license, you had to show them that you could "lay it down".
this was a bike with no brakes, one-speed, that you gassed to go slower and backed off to get traction.

after 35+ years of riding, i still don't know how to "lay 'er down" on the asphalt when the situation arises.

those guys are SO full of shiit.

+1

I don't think I could ever force myself to "lay my bike down" ... my survival mechanism would kick in and tell me it's the stupidest thing I could ever think of to do at that moment.

ATGATT (except going to the corner store .. *grin*)

I mean, MSF tells you: over-the-ankle-boots (Timberlands are fine), full-fingered gloves (gardening/mechanics gloves are fine), long-sleeved shirt or jacket (cotton or denim), sturdy pants (they mkae no materials claim here, BDUs would be fine), helmet (DOT legal) and eye protection (no Z87 necessary, glass aviators would be fine).

So even in telling people to wear gear, they can't go far enough. Why not mandate safety glasses and jeans at the very least? Who knows, too many people probably whine and claim "it's their right to injure themselves". *shrug*

No accounting for taste or intelligence, folks.

See, there I go again. Having a hard time getting my thoughts across correctly. Brad is right...it's subjective. But even WB would get pretty scraped up if he biffed wouldn't he? I guess I just like to see people covered from head to toe for the most part. Let me say this then...Full face helmet, gloves, and good boots. If people want to lose their skin its definitely their choice, but it still affects the rest of us when they go down. Our insurance rates go up. I've seen many an injury that could have been avoided by proper gear/some gear. My complaint is not about us, we're the responsible ones :) Shorts, tennis shoes, wife beaters and no gloves is just ridiculous. And lets not even talk about crotch rocket riders wearing half helmets or worse.

Bingo, how about these guys, they are skimping on the gear somewhat. ...Do you think we ought to ride with them. :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1153229932.jpg

I can't get over the fact that motor officers wear such skimpy gear. aslaw enforcemt officials you'd think that they'd be paragons of protective gear virtue, ie aerostitch, flip up helmet, gauntlets decent boots, etc.
If somebody showed up for one of my group rides wearing jackboots, skin-tight pants without armor, short sleeve shirt, fingerless gloves and a half helmet, he'd be sent home before he got beat up...

I would guess that they have little choice in the matter.. and that what they wear is mandated by municipalities... With todays high tech fabrics that breath and fit well you would think that motor officers could have a little more protection. My officer friends here, don't complain, but I know that resources are tight for them.

Please elaborate. Do you know which material Arai uses?