Here are the actual numbers from the MAIDS report:

The sample included 3417 total injuries to 921 riders.
(obviously, some riders had more than one injury).

Of the 921 total riders, 38 had reported injury to the neck.

The AIS severity is broken down below.

Minor 1.2% = 26 riders
Moderate 0.3% = 6 riders
Serious 0.0% = 1 rider
Severe 0.0% = 0 riders
Critical 0.0% = 0 riders
Maximum 0.0% = 1
Unknown 0.2% = 4





Heres's a contradictory product review (with thanks to RevZ for the link):

http://specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24747&page=3

Originally Posted by Originally Penned by Charles Buren 12-19-2006



Hi All,

I’m back from PRI and I wanted to follow up with you on the Leatt Brace MOTO R. The Leatt Brace booth was the first stop that Teresa and I made on Thursday at PRI. We spent something like an hour and a half talking to Karl Ebel, Marketing Director for the Leatt Brace Corporation. Karl was able to confidently talk us and answer every question with a serious answer and a strait look in the eye. Boy, were there a lot of questions that we asked. We came away confident that the Leatt Brace was well tested, well intentioned and well thought out. Then we went strait over to talk to Trevor Ashline, creator of the R3, Hutch 2 and Hutchins Hybrid (all SFI 38.1 certified). More on Trevor’s view of the Leatt Brace later in this post.

Teresa’s and my opinion of the Leatt Brace after seeing it in person was initially very, very positive. Teresa put it on and came away feeling like it was very comfortable to wear from a woman’s perspective. There was plenty of room around the neck area, something I feared about the Leatt Brace early on. The Leatt Brace was easy to get on and off. Upon closer inspection of the unit itself we found something we did not expect (actually Karl pointed it out), TETHERS! Yup, the darn thing would not pass the SFI 38.1 test without adding tethers. However the tethers do not attach to the shell of the helmet at all. All other SFI 38.1 certified devices attach to the shell of a helmet. The Leatt Brace tethers attach or rather loop around the chin strap mounting points on the helmet which requires zero modification to any existing helmet. The tether is basically a polyester cord with a quick release system built into the brace. Attaching and detaching the tether should be very easy to do, certainly no worse than attaching the tethers from a HANS Device or R3. Still, the Leatt Brace was comfortable and easy to get on and off. Karl also committed to me that the $595 USD retail price will stand for the SFI 38.1 certified version of the Leatt Brace. We liked it.

So what did the Auto Safety Engineer, Trevor Ashline think about the Leatt Brace? A little background information on Trevor, he worked for an auto restraint manufacturer as a Safety Engineer for ten years before starting up his own company making head and neck restraints. He’s had his own company for about five years now I think. He’s done over 120 70G hits in the test labs developing the products that you can now find at racetracks across the country and at http://lfttech.com/ or http://safedrives.com/ . I’d say he’s an honest guy with a passion for safety. The first thing that he pointed out about the Leatt Brace was the test numbers that were posted. He told me that the test numbers obtained by the Leatt Brace were the same numbers that old style HANS Device posted. Those test numbers, from the Leatt Brace SFI 38.1 tests, were not nearly as good as the other SFI 38.1 certified devices. Trevor was quick to point out that the newer HANS Device models have been getting better test numbers in an attempt to get better numbers than the devices like the R3 that Trevor created (HANS Device have not yet beaten his latest versions by the way according to Trevor). Trevor pointed out to me that the Leatt Brace worked on the exact same principals that the HANS Device works on, relying entirely on the belts to do its job. Trevor also made a point that the Leatt Brace could cause major damage to soft neck tissue in a heavy side impact, a flaw that he has pointed out in the HANS Device as well. If you could visualize a tree for example coming through your door, striking your seat and then your Leatt Brace or HANS Device pushing that device into your neck… that could be very bad. That threat is not present when you use a R3 for example where the device is entirely behind your neck. In defense of the Leatt Brace it does have padding between your neck and the hard plastic of the device but still, it could bad. Trevor thought that the Leatt Brace would not get anywhere near passing the SFI test without using the harnesses that same way that the HANS Device uses the harnesses. Without using the harnesses, for example if a harness strap broke on initial impact, Trevor felt that the Leatt Brace would be near useless, another flaw shared with the HANS Device. All three of the devices that Trevor has had SFI 38.1 certified attach to the body of the user directly and do not rely entirely on the harnesses to be effective.

The Leatt Brace Company has stated that the Leatt Brace MOTO R does not rely on the harness but the way that the device routes the harness makes it pretty clear that it uses the belts. The Leatt Brace MOTO R harness routing wings do look like they would do a better job of holding onto the harnesses vs. the HANS Device but that’s just my opinion. I don’t have the hours in the test lab that the industry experts have. About the test lab, I woud like to point out the Leatt Brace has just nine passes in the test lab where LFT Tech (R3 maker) has done well over one hundred. Experts say that you learn a lot in the test lab. I learned that that’s where the Leatt Brace Company found out that the Leatt Brace MOTO R needed tethers. All of the experts that I talked to agree that they need to do more testing on head and neck restraints.

To sum up my opinion of the Leatt Brace after seeing the device and hearing Karls and Trevors comments: I think it may be a good budget oriented device. I think the Leatt Brace is safer than the HANS Device mainly because the HANS Device clearly relies entirely on the harnesses to be effective where the Leatt Brace does not. The Leatt Brace does not need a special seat or critical harness routing the way that a HANS Device does or should have (harness routing is always very important! But that’s another thread). I think that the Leatt Brace, like all head and neck restraints will see more testing and will evolve into an even better product in the future. For the money, the Leatt Brace is effective or it would not have passed the SFI testing. Honestly I think it’s pretty impressive that the Leatt Brace passed the SFI testing in such a short time period. Many other devices have not passed the test and probably never will. At this point Safe Drives LLC is leaning toward offering the Leatt Brace MOTO R when it becomes available early in 2007.

What will I be using on the stages next season? I’ll keep using my R3 for the reasons listed above. I still think that the SFI 38.1 devices created by Trevor Ashline / LFT Technologies are absolutely the best available.

That's what I get for posting at 2 AM. What I meant to get across was that the MAIDS statistics list neck injuries EXCLUDING the cervical spine. In other words, the neck injuries they list are soft tissue (throat, muscles, blood vessels. The spine injuries are listed separately, and that's where you need to look to find the proportions in regard to severity:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1173882468.gif

I find the rest of the post regarding other devices interesting. They appear to be reviewing the Leatt Brace made for car racing rather than bikes. They differ in design and function differently, it appears to me.

No doubt then that 'spine' includes injuries all the way down to the tailbone what percentage would be spine injuries in the neck region that the brace would have an effect upon ?

How could any cervical spine injuries occur (above the shoulders, where the Leatt brace purports to protect) without any evidence of soft tissue damage?

I understand that there can be hidden injuries (hemorrhaging), but aren't these injuries eventually noted and used to adjust AIS values?

I couldn't find exact figures in a quick search. The best information I could come up with quickly was from a Wisconsin study of spinal injuries statewide in 1998. A bit over half of all the injuries involving the spinal column that resulted in cord injury causing paralysis were cervical (in the neck). If you were to look at just motorcycle wrecks, I'm sure the percentage would be even higher because of what is known as mechanism of injury. Motorcyclists suffer most from what are known as deceleration injuries, that is the sudden stop against something hard. The thoracic and lumbar spine are stabilized by the ribs and other structures while the cervical spine in the neck is quite vulnerable. When you put the weight of the head on the end of the neck you make flexion and extension injuries quite possible. Half of all the spinal cord injuries in Australia in 2003 were motorcyclists.

There is always ligament damage associated with significant spinal injury. Other soft tissue injury may or may not be significant. I've seen lots of broken necks that looked normal until x-rayed.

OK, so what does this all boil down to in your opinion?

This conversation has progressed beyond the point where anecdotal evidence has any weight.

without a scientific and double blind randomized study, this entire discussion is worthless.

i am taking the time to read the last 5 pages of the thread (which have been added since the first time i read the thread) before commenting further.

i will point out however, that as a general/trauma surgeon having seen many a biker injury in the western suburbs of chicago, i can't recall a single neck or debilitating neck injury as mechanism in a motorcycle accident causing permanent disability (or injury). soft tissue/long bone/pelvis and of course, severe or fatal head injuries/head trauma account for 98%+ of all motorcycle injuries and fatalities.... i'll reserve further comment until i read the rest..

ok

i read it.


if you look at the percentage of neck injuries that are moderate, severe, the number is LOW. real low.

can't comment on spinal injury. Obviously, a T spine is worse than an L spine which is worse that an S spine (which is TECHNICALLY) a broken pelvis. So the article/stats does not separate the injuries into level of spinal injuries.

All S spine injuries are associated (by default and definition) with an associated contracoup pelvic fracture (the sacrum (S spine) and the pelvis (pubic rami) form a bowl and crack in two places ALWAYS). This device doesn't protect you from this. Likewise, a low lumbar injury (below your waist above your pelvis) I don't think it would protect or stabilize you from...


So, is it going to help you on the road? Doubtful. On the track? Maybe.

Also, all broken necks are associated with a head injury. All head injuries are NOT associated with broken necks. Most deaths occur as a result of head injury or internal injury and bleeding, long bone fracture and bleeding, etc.

So, wear your helmet. Spend money on a brace. It may or may not help you from a neck injury. If it does, the chances it will are extremely low.

Besides, has anyone given any thought to the following:

you survive your crash and roll/tumble to a stop. You are wearing a great helmet, neck brace/back system, leather gloves and pants........

and then the garbage truck coming the other way who can't stop in time runs over you........

remember, its your time WHEN its your time... IMHO...

You're a unique bird to be a doctor that rides. Most, no all, of my doctor friends think I'm an idiot for getting anywhere near that killing machine. They keep trying to get me to see the merits of golf (so much safer, but boring, plus I still can't get over the red polyester pants with white belt and shoes of the 70s).

Anyway, enjoyed your thoughts/perspective up until the garbage truck part. That comment was probably in jest, but I very much don't believe in things happening simply due to fate.

"So, wear your helmet. Spend money on a brace. It may or may not help you from a neck injury."

exactly, and thanks for that!

yea, that was my original point, and reason for this post in the first place.
many of my friends, professional supercross/motocross racers are in wheelchairs.
some would be in chairs, regardless of whether or not they wore a leatt brace.
others would have gotten back up, grabbed their bike, and ridden on.

the brace is only about $600.
and, because i like to ride in canyons, most of the injuries i and my friends experience are more off-road than on road.
we run out of asphalt, and catapult ourselves into the dirt, to meet trees, rocks, ditches, etc....
while we like to think of ourselves as street riders, many/most of our injuries are actually along the exact same lines as dirt guys.
when we f-up, that's where we instantly go...from street rider to dirt guy.

the leatt brace is only about $600. it doesn't interfere with head movement. it doesn't weigh much. it doesn't generate wind noise. and although i haven't gotten mine yet, my friends who have them tell me that it's absolutely no big deal...very easy to adapt to. they claim it takes about 3-4 laps around a MX track...and they forget it's even there.

so is it a CYA kinda thing? maybe.
for me personally, as one who's been accused of being a "safety nazi", it's become a must-have.
because of my addiction to riding tight/twisty canyon roads, i've been involved in more street bike-that-went-off-road incidents than i care to recount.
at least three fatalities, all with broken necks, caused by riders having gone off-the-road and found themselves ill-equipped to deal with the situation (they "augered" in).
one (fairly recent) nasty one was with gerhard in central CA.

i just think that the leatt brace is one more piece of equipment that can help people avoid debilitating injuries.
while we like to think of ourselves as street riders, and we "dress for the crash", in reality, the crash we dress for isn't always the crash we experience...we dress for a street crash...and many times we experience what actually is a dirt bike crash...and to make matters worse our "street-turned-dirt bike" is WAY heavier and more cumbersome than the average dirt bike.
when our street bikes come along, after we leave the pavement and go off into the dirt, then play "tag you're it", it's way worse than tossing a motocross bike.
they weigh more, they toss us farther, they pounce harder, etc...

while i appreciate all the charts/graphs/statistics that people have contributed to this thread....i still have to deal with many close friends who will spend the rest of their lives in a wheelchair.

the leatt brace may not be the end-all, cure-all. i'm sure that the technology will continue to move forward.

but for $600...which is LESS than the cost of a wheelchair, not to mention the medical bills it takes to even get to that point....doesn't it seem like something that's worth checking out?

that was why i brought up this thread and this product in the first place.
my friend david bailey, who's in a wheelchair (and by the way has won the ironman marathon in a chair) felt it was a potentially good enough product to support and promote it.

like david, i've never met the leatt people. don't own stock.
i'm just a customer.

i just think it's something worth looking at, talking about, and (at least in my case and four or five others on this board), feel that it's worth buying/having.

just in case. just because.

it was in jest...

i've been watching some of those final destination movies on cable... he he he

but its true. karma is a *****. and when its someone's time, there is nothing to stop it.... IMHO..


brad-

understand your enthusiasm. many people have enthusiasm about all sorts of stuff. especially in medicine. however, science and math exist to verify the effectiveness and validity of X vs Y treatment or prevention. the data is not here....


the point is, however, that to be worthwhile, it must be proven to be effective. imagine spending $600 only to find that that you still have a spinal injury and then 3 years later an indepth study finds that 'chances are with the use of XYZ brace [that you were wearing]" your injury might have been made worse, statistically speaking....

but, this is unproven ground. so to those who believe it works, by all means buy it. however, having someone who suffered an injury support a product that 'could have' prevented that injury without data to back it up is conjecture, and almost irresponsible, to say the least.

caveat emptor.

Unfortunately, when I moved I did. Amazing how many jackets, boots, gloves and undergear there are! :eek: :eek:

hdd~
you just don't get it.

and to call me irresponsible to champion a product that "might/may/could" keep at least one more person out of a wheelchair...let's just say...it's best we never meet.

as a matter of fact, i'm tired of this whole thing. seems like everytime i get on this board to show people things that might help, i get flamed for it.

fluck that.


i live in the pro motorsports world, and most of us think the leatt brace is a good thing.
apparently, most of you guys don't, and seem intent on taking the time/effort to throw up charts, graphs, stats, etc....to make the point that you're right, i'm wrong...it's a complete waste of time.

fine.

do whatever the hell you want.
as they say "no good deed goes unpunished."
buy it. don't buy it.

to tell you the truth, i really dont' care anymore.

i'm outa here.

i've had enough.

i'm done.

now that's just a bit much, brad.

read this:

http://www.racerxvt.com/virtual_trainer/TFS_Doc_Bodnar.html

"cautious optimism" is correct.

remember, we are not lemmings anymore. once leeches were thought to be the end-all be-all of medicine; now, they do have their role but we don't just blood-let anyone anymore...

you really aren't being objective about this. i hope you can see and understand beyond your emotions.

i'm outta here too.

Hey Brad,

I think most people's reaction has been positive toward the device and your bringing up this topic. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a conversation about it, including the statistics. At the end of the day, its a personal decision.

When I bought a BMW (car) in 1990 or so when airbags first came out, I elected NOT to get them in my car (you could choose that year). I feel vindicated in my decision because of the failures in those early years: kids killed for "stupidly" sitting in the front seat, people burned when the explosive stuff dripped on their leg, accidently going off from a parking lot bump, etc. One could easily argue I'm an idiot for not using every safety device available, but I did my cost/benefit analysis and decided I didn't want them. Still not a big fan of the third brake light in the back window - they blind me. Obviously, other people's analysis will come out differently...

Anyway, don't be "done." Its all just a conversation.

Well, that seems like a positive link in favor of the brace, Drex. Thanks for posting it. From my point of view, there's a lot more upside potential than downside for the brace. For $395, I'll bet I'm more likely to come out ahead rather than behind for wearing one until the final evaluations are in. I'm sure many who could have used an airbag before they were tested and installed in cars feel the same way. Even in medicine, there is a way to utilize experimental drugs that aren't out yet.

I'd like to think the chances of me testing the Leatt are next to zero. But, facing a wheelchair or coffin, I'll spend $395 to hopefully improve my odds. As Brad as pointed out, being in a wheelchair is a proven outcome already.

I've tried to stay out of this because having seen people,(friends), put into wheelchairs from less than 20 feet away and personally breaking my back 4 times, being in a wheel chair for 2 days changes your opinion whats safe from racers and what if.
I feel, knowing Brads background,(as other do), that the Dr. would not put his rep and feelings on a product he didn't feel would not help. But IMO Brad has not depth,as some on this board so, when dealing with people that are not professional racers or in the industry. We as riders gain most of our tech advancement from R&D based from racing. This trickles down over time to us and gives us better shocks, cams tires and clothing. Brad is on the leading edge of R&D and racing. This means that we are hearing something that most riders will gleam in 6 months or 3 years, whatever. The point is that he doesn't usually talk with outsiders who don't know how it works, so its hard,IMO, for him to understand why anyone would want to expound graphs and studies that are not revelant to guys who race, or run the canyons at high speeds. They both crash, they both end in the dirt, they both hit rocks, hills, and poles. The fact that within the last six weeks three pro racers profess to have,(and everone else who saw it), been saved from a wheelchair by the brace means something. One was an up and coming 12 year old who races with the big boys and has already signed for a factory ride for when he turns 16. He missed a triple and stuck the front wheel in the side of the third jump, planted his head at the top and augered in. He his so hard that he broke his helmet, brace, and shoulder pads. They black flagged him, even though he said he was ok. They MRIed him and he was perfect, nothing broken. The Doc, who works at all the pro races for years said he was amazed because he had never seen such a bad crash and yet the rider got up and rode away.
Enough said,
Buy it or don't it doesn't matter because it is your own choice.

I usually don't do this but this thread just got the best of me.... Roger please kill this thread because it doesn't matter anymore.
jeff

I would like to personally thank BZDC for being kind enough to bring this to our attention. We know you don't have to do it, and me, at elast, reaizes it was done ouot of concern for fellow riders.
Fellow riders, if you don't appreciate the fact someone else is concerned enough about all of us a a whole to spend some time and effort to better us all, then at least don't rag him a

I haven't taken too much notice of the basic thread,but was very upset to hear about David Bailey now being bed ridden,truely one of the all time greats.

Hey Brad,

Don't get upset!

I and I'm sure that everyone else here appreciates the thought behind the post and know that your intent is our best health and safety and it's appreciated. I think the point that was trying to be made was that the fellow ( not you ) who said that the brace would have kept him out of the wheelchair didn't really have anything concrete to back that up. It could be that he was wearing the brace and still may have had a neck injury that put him an a chair. Hard to say after the fact.

Just by starting the thread you have caused a lot of thought to take place and provoked a lot of discussion on the topic. No one can consider that a negative in any way. By trying to decipher the charts and stats I think it was more out of a sense of 'what are the chances it can happen to me' instead of any doubt about the brace and it's good. We all consider the dangers when we ride and try and make informed and balanced choices in how we dress for the worst. Isn't it always a personal choice of cost versus comfort versus the degree of safety provided? I've never seen one and wouldn't mind trying one to see if it's comfortable and a lot of trouble or not before deciding. This has certainly opened my eyes to a danger I never considered and that is appreciated. I may never wear one but I'm open to learning more about it ... and that's a step in the right direction ... thanks to you.