agree with YOUR perspectives and points. I need to proof read!!

Thanks, no problem. I don't proofread very well either. BTW, the "Edit" button near the post allows one to go back and correct mistakes. I use it all too often.

- Mark

aw s%^t.
I shouldn't havde read this post.
Now my wife will beat me about the head and shoulders whe the window on our 530I fails.

tsk tsk
 

...or sooner if you don't sell that old duck! :D

shaddup, randolphhh.
I'm already sleeping downstairs. (that's where my shop is..that way I have a shorter walk *grin*)

Cool, I did not know that. Thank you much!!
Lane

Just got my email answered from Paul Glaves (thanks Bob H. for he email) and he said his wife`s RS has 330,000 miles on it and replaced the splines at 202,000 miles. He did say he lubes the splines at about 40-50k miles with something like honda moly 60. Well it looks like regular lube is the answer. Thats still alot of work.

Lane

I had not heard of this problem on the newer 1200 series bikes yet. Are there cases?

I only saw the story of the guy with the R1200GS whose rear end caught on fire in Wyoming, but that's to be expected. The splines must have been fairly tough to keep turning until the frozen bearing or whatever finally ignited. As they said in the Grand Junction BMW dealership "Who keeps riding when there's an obvious problem?" Of course you'd have to be in Baggs or somewhere to understand.

I've seen several, although to be honest, spline failures and other rear drive failures are often lumped together, so I don't have any hard data - just folks yelling that their brand new bikes left them stranded.

- Mark

Were those GS or S model 1200s that have failed?

RB

GS. I haven't heard of a final drive problem on a new S. But that may be simply to numbers - I suspect the number of hexhead GS's on the road outnumber S's by 10:1, both due to higher sales of the GS and because it has been on the market much longer.

- Mark

This discussion is lacking one critical element in determining spline failure causes--operator input to a highly engineered machine. I ride with another double S rider that is always quizzing me on the finer points of up-shift and downshift. (He knows who he is) Rolling the throttle on and off during a shift and having that toe pressure on the shifter so that a flick of the clutch lever allows the machine to function with that German engineered precision is the order of the day when he's in close trail. How do he know?

Then there's matching the revs to the anticipated requirement before easing out the clutch in a precision downshift to take the strain off the engine and the splines n the tranny and the shaft drive. (see you didn't think I was listening did you)

So, if there were substandard parts supplied by a vendor or a design deficiency in the mechanism itself, there would have been a recall. There are control issues here. I'm going to put my money on the ability of a operator to tear up just about anything a man can build.

We're short on the facts bearing on the spline failures and long on innuendo here. Need more data here dude.

Fast riders have slow hands, huh? :)

Just hooked up HDTV. Sports just got mo bedda!

See, I told you I could multi-task Bob.

It seems that those of us who have been following this problem from the beginning have never found a common thread relating to failure. On this board, the advrider, or bmwforums. It seems just bad luck of the draw, although some believe preventative spline lubing might help.

So ck, are/should our expectations be that a shaft drive bike not be allowed to fail even if the true variable is the operator. Without the data on the different operators the failures would all have to be material failure. There is no way to prove that lubing the splines prevented anything at all. As a former accident investigator, I'm curious to see photos of the failed parts.
Under lubrication will be evidenced by discoloration in the metal due to heat buildup prior to catastrophic failure in most cases or the softer of dissimilar gears will be eaten up by the harder gear.

How the bike is operated offers the greatest opportunity to strip out a spline via excessive torque.

If anyone has the failure data dig it up and put it on the thread.

Model specific data would be agood place to begin. But, we'll never be able to accurately capture operator inputs to the failures.

That is correct, and for what its worth, I am quite certain that excess torque, sloppy shifting, popping wheelies, etc. had nothing to do with it as these factors did not exist (actually I would regard "excess torque" causing failure as a design mistake). Anyway, the apparent fact that the problem seems focused on bikes from certain time periods, and even morely importantly, that the same people who had it fail once did not have it fail again after the same mileage, leads me to believe its entirely a material/quality control issue.

Could it be they are just a bit undersized in the intrest of saving weight/mass in a system already giving up a weight advantage to chain drive? Maybe somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison but that type of failure was almost unheard of in my auto mechanic period.
Jim

BMW has chosen belt drive for its F800 series bikes. Granted it's less expensive to produce and maintain, can this herald the transfer of torque to the rear wheels of future models. No doubt that H-D has remained with the belt drive system since 19841/2 when the first rubber mounted engine was produced.

I'd sure like to have high resolution photos of the failed shaft drive parts to examine or even know whether or not they were returned to BMW for analysis.

Ford Motor Corp would never admit that the combination fuel quantity sender/fuel pump that was cooled by fuel in the tank had a high incidence of gage failures when the tank was run continuously below 1/4 full. The heat destroyed the fuel quantity sender. A good friend/ parts mgr told me to never let the fuel level in the tank get below 1/4 tank for that reason. Ford never admitted the problem and I had it again on a 1990 Lincoln Towncar. The dealer fixed that in-tank gage without a squawk when I brought up my experience with the Taurus.

New thought! Was there a sudden change in part numbers during the production year? That's why you always see the caveat that changes can be made without prior notice. Manufacturers don't like to change things because it will just be better. They do it because to cover their product reliability 6 o'clock.

I wonder if the S uses a different clutch and maybe the different metals tend to gall more than other clutch material. I would love to be able to sort through all of this and come up with a answer. Also, BMW should beat up on, and also blame gertrag since it is their transmission and out of the hands of BMW, sort of, anyway.

Lane