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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Austin, TX. USA
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(other ballast could include pyramids, brisk plugs, or amulets with high octane gas >= 108 RM)
Of if twin spark, pull one of the plugs on that side.
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99 R11S w/ BBP, InDuct, Öhlins, PVMs, Braking, SJ-Filter, ZTech, HIDs D675 R90Cafe R60/2 M900 SV650-SS CBR150R XR125 & CRF175 Motards OnRoad OffRoad Cycles, Austin, TX: BMW, Ital, Suspension, Electrics Dealer for K-Tech, JRI, GP Suspension, Penske, Öhlins, RaceTech, Elka, Wilbers, IKON & Works www.ororcycle.com CMRA EXPERT #841 Various Formula 5, 6 & 7 championships 2006-2012 A3, Navigator, |
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Finally someone who uses plain common sense and has the most obvious answers! This Roger guy knows EVERYTHING!
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'04 R1100s. I changed a couple o' things. |
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Uh....who me?
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Bob Hancock '20 KTM1090 SuperAdventure S, '17 KTM 690er, '19 BMW F850GS, 2006 KTM 660R Dakar, 2001 Porsche Boxster S "There are times when good words are to be left unsaid out of esteem for silence." St. Benedict |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
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It seems to me that ALL BOXERS will pull to one side...if the engine is running.
Stand at a stop and rev the engine in neutral. The crank will want to turn the bike around itself. While this effect is minimized at speed, it does not go away.
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1967 R50/2 |
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intrinsically no good
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---------------- 2011 F800GS 2004 R1100SA - traded |
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Registered
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Round Rock (Austin), TX, USA
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It has nothing to do with engine rotation.
Try this on a deserted, straight road with no crown (even if you think you are King): accelerate up to 50, pull in the clutch, hold it in, down shift to neutral, let out the clutch, kill the engine and coast. Observe that it still veers off to the right. I believe this phenomenon is entirely attributable to the fact that the rear tire and the front tire rotate in parallel, but not coplanar, planes. I measured that, on my S, the plane of rotation of the front tire is translated 2.5mm to the left of the plane of rotation of the rear tire. I've always hoped that someone (motoyoyo, you need another project since the clamps are now ancient history?) would construct a 2.5mm rear hub spacer to correct F/R alignment to confirm that this eliminates the annoying need for continuous counter steering.
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Paul. '04 R1100S w/Öhlins an' stuff, '09 Buell 1125cr, '08 Suzi SV650A, '00 Suzi SV650, '97 328i (with sticky ass tires - I love this car even though its just a car). And the bikes I used to own: '68 Bultaco 100, '69 Honda CL450, '71 Kawasaki Mach III, '71 OSSA Pioneer, '72 Honda MR175, '72 Benelli 250, '75 Yamaha RD350 (then college), '83 Honda VF750F (then kids),'96 MZ Skorpion, '99 R1100S, '01 SV650 and '94 Honda VFR750F - most wrecked. Last edited by pwillikers; 06-06-2007 at 01:22 PM.. |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Well there you have it. So that's why my left arm gets tired on the long prepositioning hauls to the twisties. Whoda thunk it. Somebody please get me a 2.5 shim. That sounds so gringo. Our moto is build for form and shim to fit.
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fredereich, MD
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I think we've been throught this one before. Do a search on this and you should find a thread with diagrams and part numbers for the spacers. my recollection is that the shims are a dealer part.
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Ride Far - Ride Fast
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74 R90S, 77 R100RS, 85 K100RS, 2-87 K100RS 99 R11S 2002 Blue and White GS ... the prettiest ![]() 2008 KTM 950 Super Enduro long distance gravel road and general hooligan bike. Now an R11GS and a 650 Dakar |
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Registered
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Round Rock (Austin), TX, USA
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Thanks Mr. Science. I missed the prior thread.
Were any of you who tried the spacer able to confirm that it eliminated the bias for right turns?
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Paul. '04 R1100S w/Öhlins an' stuff, '09 Buell 1125cr, '08 Suzi SV650A, '00 Suzi SV650, '97 328i (with sticky ass tires - I love this car even though its just a car). And the bikes I used to own: '68 Bultaco 100, '69 Honda CL450, '71 Kawasaki Mach III, '71 OSSA Pioneer, '72 Honda MR175, '72 Benelli 250, '75 Yamaha RD350 (then college), '83 Honda VF750F (then kids),'96 MZ Skorpion, '99 R1100S, '01 SV650 and '94 Honda VFR750F - most wrecked. |
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Uh....who me?
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 8,792
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Years ago I removed the spacer from my '98 R1100RT to put the rear wheel more in line with the front. Seemed to help just a bit. If I thought a spacer would really help, I'd just make one....should be a simple lathe project, but I don't notice it when working the bike and have learned to just sit crooked when "resting".
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Bob Hancock '20 KTM1090 SuperAdventure S, '17 KTM 690er, '19 BMW F850GS, 2006 KTM 660R Dakar, 2001 Porsche Boxster S "There are times when good words are to be left unsaid out of esteem for silence." St. Benedict |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: See Der Rabbits, Iowa
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I had to double-check and make sure that I was on the Pelican boards, and not on i-BMW again... There was a VERY lengthy thread over there about K12RS's that PTTR, spacers for 5.5" wheels, blah, blah, &c, &c...
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J.J. Mandarin / Black '99 R11S-A - black YoYo clamps, black wheels, black front forks. Former bikes: '93 R100R, '93 K1100LT, '02 R1150RT, '03 K1200GT, '97 F650ST |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2005
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The old thread covers this topic pretty well and, as often, Big Science has the big picture.
In addition to being in the wrong direction, adding a spacer adds unwelcome forces to the hub bearings and they are already marginal. No reasonably-sized spacer can do much good. Just see how far you need to shift your backside off the saddle to balance the bike. I think that the bike's weight distribution is the culprit. In the earlier thread, I said 15 lbs in the saddle bags will balance the bike. But at crawling speeds, even that is on the low side. About coasting, that's about the only time you are hands-free on an S (unlike the /2 which had weak slide springs in the carbs and adjustable friction in the grip) and so it is the only time you'd really notice a pull. But somewhere at 50 mph or faster, wheel gyroscopic forces will balance the bike just fine and so you need to try coasting at different slower speeds to see how bad the effect is. Last edited by Ole Bike; 06-06-2007 at 09:33 AM.. |
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Join Date: Aug 1999
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I'll dissent and call the spacer still a good idea. The hub bearings aren't great, but not so poor as to be called marginal, I believe.
While they may be marginal for the heavier, more severe duty RT or GS (still very few failures there), they're not too close to the edge for the lighter, generally-less-pounded S model. And the shim amount is small enough that leverage is not greatly increased. If you have the wherewithawl, mechanically (machinst like Bob) it's not a bad move. I've never bothered, as it doesn't really bug me. But if you're struggling, it's a safe and judicious mod.
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99 R11S w/ BBP, InDuct, Öhlins, PVMs, Braking, SJ-Filter, ZTech, HIDs D675 R90Cafe R60/2 M900 SV650-SS CBR150R XR125 & CRF175 Motards OnRoad OffRoad Cycles, Austin, TX: BMW, Ital, Suspension, Electrics Dealer for K-Tech, JRI, GP Suspension, Penske, Öhlins, RaceTech, Elka, Wilbers, IKON & Works www.ororcycle.com CMRA EXPERT #841 Various Formula 5, 6 & 7 championships 2006-2012 A3, Navigator, |
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Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Surely BMW has to know the two wheels are not in the same plane. I would think there has to be a reason, but have no idea what it would be. On the 2000 K1200RS I had, the rear wheel was shifted to one side to compensate for the uneven weight distribution from the engine to keep it from pulling...
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So, can anyone provide empirical evidence that a spacer corrects this behavior, ie. the need for continual countersteering?
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Paul. '04 R1100S w/Öhlins an' stuff, '09 Buell 1125cr, '08 Suzi SV650A, '00 Suzi SV650, '97 328i (with sticky ass tires - I love this car even though its just a car). And the bikes I used to own: '68 Bultaco 100, '69 Honda CL450, '71 Kawasaki Mach III, '71 OSSA Pioneer, '72 Honda MR175, '72 Benelli 250, '75 Yamaha RD350 (then college), '83 Honda VF750F (then kids),'96 MZ Skorpion, '99 R1100S, '01 SV650 and '94 Honda VFR750F - most wrecked. |
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Barback King
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: just west of Hell
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the burning question...does the R12S do the same...
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R11S CNC BARBACKS Now an R1200GSW rider... |
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Thread Killer
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Needs a heavier front wheel. Pulls to the sky.
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08 HP2 Sport 95 Triumph Tiger 85 911 Carrera |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 20
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If you start the bike and leave it on the side stand, it will rock a bit and if you twist the throttle, the bike will pull harder to the right. Since you're not moving, I can't see how the non-aligned tires plays any role in the movement.
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