Trying Lennie's Again

[phoenixtexoma]

Trying photo again.

[shreddr]

phoenix, can you PM me this diagram? when i blow it up it gets blurry.

[phoenixtexoma]

Send me a regular e-mail, will reply with attachment. Having trouble again on the forum software.

[phoenixtexoma]

Shreddr:

Here is a place to get the sprocket info pic:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/1204706/b5a.jpg

[shreddr]

thanks phoenix. i may give this a shot tomorrow, the only thing I think might be missing from you instructions, is the fact that you need to rotate the cam to line up with its new TDC orientation, is that correct? otherwise I hope this will be straightforward.

[phoenixtexoma]

Shreddr: Right. Once you make sure the timing marks are correct, you rotate the cam to line up in the 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock position. You'll notice that the cam has a lot of movement when it's on the bottom of the lobe. I thought I mentioned that in the instructions, will check.

[shreddr]

i just checked it, you did mention it, just in a way that i didn't get until now. I didn't get a chance to put them in yet, but when i do I am also gonna do the valve adjust (6000 miles) TB sync, and all lubricant change at the same time. i am hoping for a real "seat of pants" improvement, with the cam sprockets in conjunction with the other engine mods I have already made (Laser cans and cat elim, lennies induct, and pulled O2 sensor, and cat code plug)

[phoenixtexoma]

Shreddr: It helps to remember that the cam is the last part of the equation here. If you're careful about setting the cyl. on TDC, using paint to mark the location of the chain-side sprocket teeth (the mark showing BETWEEN two teeth), and make sure the other sprocket mark points directly at the protruding nub, it's easy. You might spray some WD 40 on the pins on Lennie's sprockets to make them tap in easier. You'll definitely see a BIG improvement as you have some of the same mods as I do on my BCP. I have a Techlusion also. There was an earlier post about this install, but there's wrong info about the final step.

[shreddr]

i am not sure i am going to get these things in, becuase i can't get the bolts holding the stock cam sprockets out. I was using an 8mm Bondhaus allen head with an 8" piece of pipe as an extension, the bike in first gear, rear brake on, and socket wrench on the alternator pulley off the crank, AND, i was sure I was going to snap the allen wrench, i must have had it flexed 3" off straight and nothing was happening. i will go buy an 8mm socket tomorrow and try my torque wrench, but if that doesnt work, they are for sale to the next bidder.

[signit98]

.....yes, those puppies are TIGHT... I was worried about snapping mine... but I went and got an 8mm socket for my 1/2" drive and (bike in 1st, rear brake to full stop) with using the force (the brute force) finally got them loose - I was about to give up as well!

I put them back in with locktite though... don't want them to come out when I don't need that!... don't give up, shreddr!

[shreddr]

will do dude, thanks for the encouragement, i really wanna get em in!

[phoenixtexoma]

Shreddr: I used a 1/2" Craftsman 24" rigid breakover bar to get the bolts loose. Rock it back and forth, progressively harder on the loosening pull. They'll come loose. Next time I'd be tempted to use an old-fashioned impact tool and hammer.

[shreddr]

did you loctite the bolts back on?

[phoenixtexoma]

No, but it wouldn't hurt. Just use the mild grade of Locktite (blue) if you do.

[AntonLargiader]

Originally posted by phoenixtexoma
Next time I'd be tempted to use an old-fashioned impact tool and hammer.

It's not a suitable application since there's nothing solid to impact against. In extreme cases (like using an air gun) you can break the tensioner rails. Then you get to post some really interesting pictures.

Shreddr, I saw that you were immobilizing the bike through the drive train. That way you have all of the elasticity in the input shaft and driveshaft to overcome, and it'll always feel like you're bending stuff like crazy. Block the engine at the flywheel (using a pin) and it'll be much more solid. If they've never been off before, they usually come loose with a pretty loud 'crack.'

One thing I always do when removing tough bolts like this is to use a fairly long breaker bar and flex the handle back a bit so it's even with the bolt, sort of like a 7 if you know what I mean. That way there's no force trying to tilt the tool off the fastener.

[phoenixtexoma]

Good tips.

[signit98]

...Anton, you are clearly someone who does this professionally and who's opinion and tips will have to bee heeded and respected... I know I do, from what I have read from you so far.

Thank you for the tips... I am sure you are not a fan of the tool that bolts into the spark-plug hole and blocks the piston at OT for THIS particular application?

Didn't think of locking the flywheel... but then, I am not doing this every day either... that is why this board is SO VALUABLE!

[shreddr]

i got em loose! the breaker bar worked, and it did crack pretty loud when it let loose. I will loctite them back on. I will post performance reviews soon!

[AntonLargiader]

Wow, thanks signit. But I'm not the only one on this board. I try to stick to the stuff that interests me (mostly drivetrain stuff) so you'll hardly ever see me post about forks, shocks, paint, etc.

BTW I do think this is one of the better boards. Less flaming, more savvy participants than most.

Originally posted by signit98
...I am sure you are not a fan of the tool that bolts into the spark-plug hole and blocks the piston at OT for THIS particular application?...

I just don't see that there's a need for what I see as a potential risk. Doing some rough math it looks like even if you could distribute the load on both pistons and cushion the rods as much as possible, you're still looking at about 350 psi on the surface of the piston where it hits the blocking rod. I'm assuming 80 fignewton-meters breaking torque and 1 cm^2 contact area for the rod, so if someone wants to check my math please do. BTW I don't see how you can block the piston at OT; seems you'd want to block it at midstroke. At any rate, if you really wanted to block the engine with the piston you might want to hydrolock it instead. That would distribute the load over the whole piston.

The flywheel pin just slips in and also verifies TDC. It's plenty strong for flywheel bolts & cam sprocket bolts. There are any number of things that will work for that: bolts, allen wrenches, tool handles, etc.

BTW (I don't mean to drag this out) but as I think I posted in another thread, it seems pretty common that people screw up the reinstallation of these cam sprockets. Should be simple but something about it must not be. Make REALLY sure the keyways are engaged before you tighten the bolt.

BTW #2, I don't apply loctite. I want them to spin in and out by hand so I can feel what's going on. And if it's anything tougher than blue, please make sure the next owner (and anyone working on the bike) knows it.

[signit98]

...no, you are not the only knowledgeable person on the board - but certainly one of the MORE knowledgeable ones.

One of the beauties of this board is the fact the there are people like you, Bobby, Swartzy, roger albert, N8! (to name just a few) and others with knowledge in different fields who are readily willing to answer questions and offer tips, tricks and opinions and as a result, are of great help to people like me... decent wrenching experience, but not enough aquired knowledge for this specific bike yet....

I am very thankful to ALL of you guys out there to provide reason to be on here... opinions (even if they don't always fall in line with mine ) topics, help and entertainment and information!

A great and safe weekend to all!