Bad Vibration!!

[Kieran R1100S]

I am running in my R1200S bought last Tuesday, I have 700km on the clock, with 400km done through the hills. Yesterday I rode over to Mannum from Adelaide and sat on 100 to 110km trying to vary the speed. My right hand kept on going to sleep, the vibration through the right bar was noticeable. On the way home it only took 40km at a steady 100kmph to send my hand completely dead. I had to pull over and move my hand around to get any sensation back, I did this 3 times. I have come from thre R1100S where I never had such a problem. Has anyone experianced this!!

Thanks Kieran

[cole1]

I had a similar problem until I added risers. For I thin it was to much weight on the wrists that did it for me. In anycase maybe have the dealer make sure the throttle bodies are synched correctly or maybe the bar end is a bit loose.

http://www.creativecycleconcepts.com/

[R1100SPORTour]

I thought the counter-balancer made the engine smoother than the R1100S engine...
My friend had the same problem on his R1200S.After the first service,whatever the dealer did,it ran much smoother.Where the R1100S is vibey around 4500rpm the R1200S vibrates at a higher rpm level...

[Antman]

Kieran, my 2c.
I don't have any noticeable, hand-sleep inducing vibration at 100ish kmph +/-.
The boxer is pretty vibey at idle and will shake the mirrors (and me) about a bit; but nowhere near this at 100.
Everyone is different though, and what I think is not too vibey, you may think is very!

Ant

[Guest24]

I know this may sound basic; but, are you sure you're not placing a little weight on your wrist in a slightly bent back position? I'd invest in a Throttlemeister for some relief on the long straights. I know that it doesn't take very long for my right wrist to numb up my last three fingers if my posture is off and I'm putting the slightest amout of weight on the grips. Try again and see if you're loosing feel from the little finger inward.

[shreddr]

i find this is a problem when you are riding at constant throttle position and RPM, it's just muscle monotony. it is also a function of riding position, if you lean on the handlebars to keep your upper body up, the wrists and hands will toast quickly, you need to get in the habit of holding your torso up with your abs, and staying very light on the handgrips. if you are ripping it up in the twisties, and getting on and off the throttle and braking hard, you need to ride like this and shouldn't have any issues, at least i don't.

oh yeah, one other thing, I have had this problem once or twice and it seems to only happen when its cold, and i have the grip heaters on full blast. i was thinking it was some weird circulatory thing, where the chilled back of my hand wasnt letting the blood flow properly through my fingertips, even though my palm was warm. for what its worth..

[Peter Parts]

If vibration is the problem, like most kinds of noxious stimulation, the best solution is by addressing the problem "at source" - by reducing the vibration. Second best is through isolation such as with a few turns of bicycle handlebar tape. This will also enlarge the diameter of the throttle which is very helpful... see next two points.

If ergonomics is the issue, hard to describe fixes with words alone. One good help is a special spandex fingerless glove under your riding gloves. Acts like "support hose" and is really beneficial. Even if you are skeptical at first, the good effects can be felt within an hour. And you can use them when keyboarding gives you carpal-tunnel grief.

The Throttlemeister ("Throttle Master" - a pretty egotistical name for them to choose for their simple gizmo) is not a good idea because it adds friction (stupid when you think about it, eh?) and impairs your ability to handle the throttle precisely or quickly. Throttle locks aren't like smart cruise controls on cars because they are just locks; bike riding should be active and having a lock leads to bad habits. The best move of all (and one every rider should try right away) is to buy a 28 cent spring, get two 6 inch lengths of light cord or heavy thread, two pieces of electrical tape, and make a throttle counter-force spring to suit their taste - as little or as much counter-force as you like. Might take you 5 minutes to make one, if you are slow.

[Kieran R1100S]

I don't have a problem with the bike vibration as such. I had the R1100S an know all about vibration. The R1200S has less of that every where. I am getting a clear vibration through both bars and because you can let go of the left you get some relief but with the right hand on the throttle it's hard to do this. I removed the bar end weights this morning and went up the freeway and sat on a constant 100km/ph. Because I was aware of it I didn't hold the throttle with a hard grip, I maintained a loose grip. It only took 46km for my hand to become completely numb. This isn't a problem if you are on and off the gas through the hills, it is only on a trip. I get the same sensation out of using my garden whipper snipper to edge the lawn. It is a constant vibration that sends your hand to sleep. I understand that the throttle bodies may be out of sink and I will have this looked at at first service. Some people get the same thing happening with foot pegs, but after removing the end weights and getting the same problem I am stumped to know what else to do. Maybe shove some led up the bar end and see if that stops it.

Thanks Kieran

[shreddr]

on my R11 i used to get numb heels, the wierdest frickin thing. i ended up taking the gel inserts (they were only in the heels) out of my riding boots, and the problem disappeared instantly. maybe try some different gloves.

[Peter Parts]

I keep my counter-force spring at nearly equilibrium with my TB springs or closing very slowly. That lets me take either or both hands off the bars (my bike is balanced NOT to veer right above about 30 mph) and you can't relax some of your back muscles without having both arms free.

Not everybody thinks equilibrium is safe. But it was the traditional setting for touring bikes long ago like the /2.

Beats me how you can ride any distance without being able to wring-out your right hand? Of course, with a counter-force spring, less need to do so, even if you are free to do so.

BTW, I do stuff like this (ergonomics, safety) as part of my "day job."

[bill pierce]

Originally Posted by Peter Parts

The Throttlemeister ("Throttle Master" - a pretty egotistical name for them to choose for their simple gizmo) is not a good idea because it adds friction (stupid when you think about it, eh?) and impairs your ability to handle the throttle precisely or quickly. .

I have a Throttlemeister on my r11s and find it very useful in some conditions. Like long stretches of road with a constant throttle position. They are not a throttle lock as you suggest but rather add some friction much like the spring tape gismo you suggest only without the Red Green quality issues.

[tomn]

Kieran;
first of all it took me quite a few rides to build up and get fit to 12S and hand numbness went away, also you can try adding weight, put the bar ends back on with washers or some sorts between the ends and bar,

[chewie]

I have a palm rest. Cost me $7.00 and clips on to the grip. It's brilliant for a long haul as your fingers don't need to be wrapped around the bar.

Not good in tight twisties with constant roll off/on of throttle.

BTW - When my hands get a bit pins and needly not just in the cold but during tha latter stages of a long ride, I just put the heated grips on and it seems to "circulate the blood" and gets rid of the feeling

Definately try a palm rest/rocker Kieran, for the $ they are awesome!

[Peter Parts]

Originally Posted by bill pierce

I have a Throttlemeister on my r11s and find it very useful in some conditions. Like long stretches of road with a constant throttle position. They are not a throttle lock as you suggest but rather add some friction much like the spring tape gismo you suggest only without the Red Green quality issues.

Bill - you are right on most points. The ThrottleMeister can be helpful on long stretches with a constant throttle. And for sure, garish colors are not everybody's cup of tea - so you can spray paint the spring semi-matte black if you want to blend into the end weights.

But you are mistaken about what it feels like. The ThrottleMeister has to add enough friction to be equal (or almost equal) to the restoring force of both butterfly springs. If it had less friction, it wouldn't be doing a darn thing for you. You have to fight that considerable friction (plus the butterfly spring forces) every time you budge the throttle the least bit. Sounds like the opposite of what you'd want to me.

On the other hand, a throttle counter-force spring is nearly light as a feather - up and down the range throttle range, with no adjustments are needed to it except when set up originally and then it just sits there working. There is a small amount of friction within the cables, grip mechanism, and 1-into-2 box and that friction is helpful in stabilizing the system (like a shock is helpful on suspension springs). A spring adds no friction because it is a spring force only. It just adds spring counter-force to balance the very necessary return forces of the the butterfly springs which are best left strong, as designed. When you set up the counter-force spring, you can wind it as tight or as loose as you wish and then go riding.

[Kieran R1100S]

Originally Posted by chewie

I have a palm rest. Cost me $7.00 and clips on to the grip. It's brilliant for a long haul as your fingers don't need to be wrapped around the bar.

Not good in tight twisties with constant roll off/on of throttle.

BTW - When my hands get a bit pins and needly not just in the cold but during tha latter stages of a long ride, I just put the heated grips on and it seems to "circulate the blood" and gets rid of the feeling

Definately try a palm rest/rocker Kieran, for the $ they are awesome!

Chewie I have never herd of a Palm Rest. Where can I get one.
Can you explain how it works please.

Cheers Kieran

[zx9rmal]

P P -

Not to rain on your parade, but I've been using T-meisters for years. The friction is light enough (if set correctly) that I even shift with it engaged. Of course, you wouldn't ride in sport mode or street mode with it, but riding the highways with it engaged is, in my opinion, virtually transparent, with no adverse effect on control.

[Guest24]

I'm glad you posted that comment Mal. I use mine (Throttlemeister) in much the same manner and find that it reduces fatigue greatly.

[Peter Parts]

Let's look at it mathematically.

1. If it takes 6 minutes to make a good post and 5 minutes to try out a counter-force spring, why are so many people wasting time writing posts instead of trying little temporary experiments? I like to keep my body parts working well and a couple of minutes mocking up a counter-force spring seems a cheap effort for a potential big benefit... like extending your riding career 20 years.

2. Assuming you're riding straight on a flat road with no traffic or wind, the friction in the throttle system plus additional friction from the TM helps your hand keep the throttle steady. When you want to budge the throttle, your hand must fight the TB springs, friction in the system, AND the TM friction.

3. A counter-force spring works against the TB springs, adding no friction to speak of. When you want to keep the throttle steady, the force needed is just the difference in spring forces (can be set to zero or just as feather-light as you like or can still be strong enough to snap throttle closed fast) and system friction. Whenever you want to change the throttle, the force is still the difference (can be set to zero, etc.) and the small system friction.

Touring bikes have had friction/lock mechanisms forever. The /2 had adjustable throttle friction. The later Airheads had a screw underneath the right grip (later re-named prolly for liability reasons, "tuning screw"). Big bore machines, need seriously strong springs to close butterflies (and more so, slides).

The safety logic is obvious as anybody with a dented helmet on their mantelpiece can attest. But counter-force springs and friction locks kind of undermine the logic. When trouble looms, you have to shove the throttle closed against the additional friction of the TM, etc. With a counter-force spring, you also may or may not need to be assertive in closing the throttle, but the force is tiny and quick.


I like to have my counter-force spring tied-up pretty strong. I like to get my right hand off the bars and I can even wave both arms in the air since my bike doesn't veer to the right at legal speeds like everybody else's S.


Did you know that your bike will be faster with a lighter throttle? Today there are 1/4 turn throttles on sport bikes like the S. But with big cubes, you need big TB springs so going to 1/4 turn throttles makes matters worse for your wrist than earlier bikes.

[Peter Parts]

Duplicated post due to internet gremlin.

[Guest24]

A picture of this would be worth all your typing and more Peter. Got pics?