R1100S Sport Exhaust Question

[SSR330Ci]

I'm thinking about buying a sport exhaust for my 04 R1100S. It sounds like a fork lift now. My plan is to get a sport collector (replace the cat) this year and the mufflers next year. The bike is used for sport touring. I want something sporty but still tolerable for all day rides. Improved power and economy would be a bonus.

1. Does removing the cat noticeably increase power and noise?

2. Any recommendations?

[signit98]

...the topic has been discussed to death... just recently, actually... there is an active thread.

However your "Forklift" comment made me laugh, so here you go:

Removing the cat makes the bike LIGHTER, a tad bit louder (more like adding a little growl) and run a tad bit smoother... overall it's worth it and not to expensive.

I had a Two Brother's on mine and was very happy...

[bacn5]

Welcome to PP! Just replacing the converter with the sport collector will make it noticeably louder and it will probably run better as long as the fuel mixture is right. Two brother makes a very light weight relatively inexpensive collector, but I would recommend the Laser collector since it should hold up much better... Plus Laser makes a chip to go with theirs. I would recommend searching the forum as this topic has been discussed in the past.
Hope this helps.

[phoenixtexoma]

SSR: Laser has a lot more than just a chip. Robert Foster has something that doesn't require cracking open the ECU and installs in minutes. It tweaks not only fuel delivery, but also the timing. It's a Godsend to guys who aren't technically comfortable trying to dial in a sophisticated unit like a Rapid Bike. He's a member of the forum and a great guy to work with. He'll get you going where you want to go -- not many people know more about tuning your S than he does.

[SeabeckS]

I deduce you went ahead and bought that S bike you were talking about in another thread...how about a picture of your new ride? Heck, even a pic of your 330Ci would be okay. Thread a few pages down called "Show your Scoot" would be a good place for a new picture.

Welcome to the forum, if you ever want to ride some of the roads on the Kitsap Peninsula or out towards Port Angeles give me a shout.

Cheers!

Bill J

[wood-d]

Originally Posted by bacn5

Just replacing the converter with the sport collector will make it noticeably louder and it will probably run better as long as the fuel mixture is right.

Huh? I was told by someone on these forums that removing the CAT improved flow and caused the mixture to get MORE lean than stock. That is why everyone recommends chips or other enrichment devices.

So who's correct?

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by wood-d

Huh? I was told by someone on these forums that removing the CAT improved flow and caused the mixture to get MORE lean than stock. That is why everyone recommends chips or other enrichment devices.

So who's correct?

When you remove the cat you remove the cat plug as well, no need to buy any "devices".

If you are thrifly, when you put a can on top of the removal of the cat, get a K1200 fuel regulator and the mixture gets just fine, I mean probably just as fine as with expensive "devices".

[roger albert]

Well, the dumb regulator swap and plug removal are nowhere near as good as the real solutions, but they're not bad. They certainly won't help mileage. No chance of that with blind dumb enrichment. But back to the comment before last, YES, it WILL make it go leaner. No question there.

[Nitro]

No chance of that with blind dumb enrichment

It just happens to work very well in the case of the R1100 engine.

I disagree about the mileage, mine did not change. All things being equal, mileage should go up with a less restrictive exhaust. That is counter-reacted by the removal of the plug and the higher pressure regulator which richen the mixture across the whole range, and that is what the engine really seems to need, spark plugs don't lie.

Yes, you can go ahead and fine tune all the little bumps in the mixture curve with the fancy "devices", but remember that the end user, i.e. the engine might not even care. We're are talking about real explosions here, not virtual ones made out of finely arranged 1s and 0s.

Something that anyone should agree on is that the R1100 engines are very lean when shipped out from Germany.

[roger albert]

Well, if you know the first thing about motors, you know there aren't any explosions (barring ping/knock), real or virtual.

The hillbilly blind enrichment mode leaves a lot more than minor bumps.
Sure, said hillbilly can open a crate with a sledgehammer instead of a crowbar, but it doesn't mean the crate likes it, or that it's a good substitute.

> All things being equal, mileage should go up with a less restrictive exhaust

if you change mixture, then all other things aren't equal. I've seen a bunch of bikes in the shop and the mileage drops across the board. Too many data points for that trend to be anything other than obvious

[SSR330Ci]

The Laser sport collector has an oxygen sensor fitting (see http://www.laser-exhausts.com/wp-content/uploads/npipdf/BMW_26_1100_967002_R1100S.pdf). I thought the purpose of the oxygen sensor was to provide feedback to the ECU to adjust the fuel mixture, granted the ideal fuel mixture with/without a cat may be different; hence, the ECU may need to be reprogrammed/adjusted.

Lean is bad due to drivability problems and potentially expensive results. The question is, do R1100S's tend to run lean with a sport collector and oxygen sensor? Experience with modern cars tells me to buy the chip that adjusts the ECU, but is it necessary for routine street riding (no track days)?

[Nitro]

You're right Roger, there are no explosions in MOTORS because they are electric in nature.

However, I've never seen a running internal combustion engine in where gas and air does not explode.

I guess your shop is a wormhole where many of the current laws of physics brake down.

Gas and air molecules do not act like isomorphic 1s and 0s in your Power Commander.

Out of this thread, remove the plug and put the higher pressure regulator and you’ll be more than happy.

[roger albert]

> However, I've never seen a running internal combustion engine in where gas and air does not explode.

Then you've never seen a properly running engine. It's interesting that you get pedantic about terms like motor vs engine, and dismiss real differences such as what happens in a combustion chamber to begin with, or what an appropriate mixture is.

Wrong again sir. Not going to get into the stupid motor vs engine term debate, especially since we ride bikes from Bavarian MOTOR Works (not BEMs) which are also called Motorrad, not Enginerad, but the quality of your advice seems about as good as your understanding of how an engine works. The mixture burns, it does not explode. In my shop and in the rest of the real world. You don't understand motors or physics in either, as you've shown two posts in a row.

Not sure why in your ignorance, you start talking digital bits or power commanders. Lots of confused folks try to deflect talk away from reality. I don't personally twiddle bits in my ECU, nor run a power commander. So again, not even sure what you're babbling about there.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by SSR330Ci

Lean is bad due to drivability problems and potentially expensive results. The question is, do R1100S's tend to run lean with a sport collector and oxygen sensor? Experience with modern cars tells me to buy the chip that adjusts the ECU, but is it necessary for routine street riding (no track days)?

Lots of folks get satisfactory results simply replacing the cat with a y-pipe. But you won't get any more power - just a bump in noise and a slight weight reduction.

Valve damage due to running lean is pretty rare on modern engines (excepting two-strokes of course). I've never seen a good data plot of EGT vs. mixture on a boxer engine, but my bet would be that stock the motor is already on the lean side of peak exhaust gas temperature for emissions and fuel economy reasons, so if it leans out a little more, valve temps would actually decrease. Many folks have the imagery of unburned fuel being cool and wet and think that richer is always better for valves, but starting at stock tuning, enrichment probably raises valve temps. In any event, I wouldn't worry about it. A y-pipe with a good 02 bung is a good place to start and you can look into other parts of the puzzle if/when you want.

And I agree with Roger on one point - anything that is going to move mixture towards better power is probably going to hurt mileage. Lots of todays bikes with power commanders and other devices make a bit more power and have improved throttle response, but you generally can't dump lots of excess fuel out the exhaust without lowering mileage.

- Mark

[boxercup]

Originally Posted by Nitro

You're right Roger, there are no explosions in MOTORS because they are electric in nature.

However, I've never seen a running internal combustion engine in where gas and air does not explode.

I guess your shop is a wormhole where many of the current laws of physics brake down.

Gas and air molecules do not act like isomorphic 1s and 0s in your Power Commander.

Out of this thread, remove the plug and put the higher pressure regulator and you’ll be more than happy.

Greetings,

Your knowledge base is bankrupt and your disrespect is forgiven as you might not know Roger. Do a search of his posts!

I do know him and had the pleasure to meet him and he has earned my respect time after time since 2002.

We like empirical evidence here on the PPBB.

An internal combustion engine is an engine in which the combustion of a fuel occurs in a combustion chamber inside and integral to the engine. In an internal combustion engine it is always the expansion of the high temperature and pressure gases that are produced which apply force to the movable component of the engine, such as the pistons or turbine blades.

It is called "Controlled Combustion" in an ICE engine.

Explosions are more related to terrorists than engines.

Remember there is always twitter.com for your hype.

Best!

[boxercup]

Greetings

FWIW

If the engine is operated at high power settings and a lean mixture, then heat loading is high. When heat absorption isn't balanced by heat dissipation, exhaust valve temperatures increase causing valve and valve guide wear.

You can lean more aggressively at lower power settings because there is less mass flow past the exhaust valve. Fewer hot molecules are striking the valve so that the valve absorbs less heat even though the EGT temperature might be the same or higher.

The goal to longevity and performance is a proper mixture that will produce maximum power at all TP/RPMS and thus the related EGV cooling!

Hope this helps!

[R69S]

I bought a Laser sport collector & chip last year, and ran it with the stock exhaust until just recently.

The biggest difference was the sound. It used to sound like a forklift, more engine noise than exhaust noise. With the collector/chip installed the exhaust is now a little louder although you can still hear a faint forklift in the background. It makes me think of a groundhog (not sure why, I've never seen one in person). It definitely sounds better, and is sill very mellow.

Recently my stock exhaust cracked after many years of service. I just ordered a set of Laser cans and am waiting for them in the mail. I have heard some modified Laser exhaust and it can be quite loud but you need to modify the baffles to make them that way. I am not sure how loud it's gonna be till I get them on.

After much research I felt the Laser product was top quality and had been thoroughly tested. If it's good enough for the Boxer Cup, it's good enough for my bike. One thing to note, I believe my bike might have a cam chain tension issue that makes for even more engine noise, apparently this is a common issue.

Timing Chain Noise

Good luck.

[RBMann]

SSR330Ci-

I sent you a private message.

[Bob Hancock]

I ran my 2004 BCPrep with Laser cat elim pipe and stock cans for 46,000 miles and it never missed a beat. Mileage was about what it had been stock.

[signit98]

Originally Posted by markjenn

Valve damage due to running lean is pretty rare on modern engines (excepting two-strokes of course).

Which valve would that be on a two-stroke engine, Mark?... your heart valve? Tire valve?