New Member-R1200S throttle question

[TxCan01]

Had my 1200s now for about 3 weeks and 900miles. Great bike. Adding a few "farkles" I'm hearing them called. RG spools on fork and shaft, shock sock to keep the Ohlins clean and considering a Ill. CF hugger - we'll see. $309 on ebay right now from ShiftTech.
600 mile service was at Wild West Honda in Katy where I got er. Bike was calling me from the corner for well over a yr before they made me get it. They seem to be a good bunch.
Question is around the weird non-linear throttle thing. I'm slowly getting used to it but wonder is there a fix to make the throttle more linear. To me it disguises the engines torque making it feel flat and needing to twist way more than you should have to. Anyway haven't seen any fixes posted so assuming it's a tough one.

My 02FZ1 sits in the garage begging to be turned into a track bike or sold off - judge is out still.

Enjoy the board, lots of knowledgable folks here.

[signit98]

Open the exhaust and add a fuel-management gadget... sometimes having the software upgraded does the trick, but it did not for me.

I added a Techlusion to the (wide open) Akrapovic exhaust and there is not flat spot and no jump... just a never ending, linear increase in power until you hit the rev. limiter!

I have pretty much the same setup... fun bike... but a trouble maker

[Reformed Squid]

So you're the one who finally rescued that orphan. Every time I'd stop by the price was marked lower. Kept trying to convince the wife that my silver one needed a companion....she wasn't going for it. I've dealt with Wild West for years and have had nothing but excellent service. Dan the service manager runs a tight ship.

Not sure where you're located, but there a pretty decent group of us out around Katy (mostly BMW's and Guzzi's with the odd Aprillia or Huskey thrown in for fun. Google Houston Euroriders for the yahoo group. We usually meet once or twice a week for dinner to tell lies and solve the world's problems. Also, do a fair amount of riding on the weekends as well.

Gerry

[peter f]

Originally Posted by TxCan01

Question is around the weird non-linear throttle thing.

This very annoying thing is due to some eccentric 2 part mechanism that rotates the throttle butterflies. Obviously Munich was aware about these pipe and slippers tales....he he (thus made the thing "safe" - according with what Munich thinks as safe).

Fitting a decent full pipework (mine's HPE) and ...erm...some after market ECU (Mottorad doesn't understand the term "alternative" maps) could handle the problem up to a point...but still you'll need (proportionally) more twist for the final/upper rpm band.

If your alternative ECU choice is RapidBike > MAKE SURE that there's a capable tuner around/near you...otherwise...don't do it.

[Bob Hancock]

Memory isn't serving the specifics, but lately I've seen an ad for eccentric throttle grips that give you three different options. From 1:1 to various stages of eccentric needed primarily for dirt bikes that can be too explosive down low. Betcha brad or someone will know.

I just got used to it.....really not that big a deal anymore.

[peter f]

Hmm

Eccentric grips that counter-cancel the "eccentric" butterflies? Sounds interesting idea (if doable). Note: this R12S throttle thing has nothing to do with the usual politically correct middle range flat spot (noise + emission EU regulations and the likes).

[TxCan01]

Thanks guys. Bob/Peter - I agree that this is the throttle linkage rather than the midrange flat spot issue. takes a bunch of throttle to get off the line relative to what I'm used to. I've heard of the throttle linkage/cam thing it's called G-2 throttle tubes and they're popular with the dirt bike crowd and I'd heard about somebody that ran one on his Super Duke.
http://www.g2ergo.com/
I checked their website and they don't list an application for the Beemer but might be worth a call. I think the purpose is do exactly what the beemer already incorporates, make it less likely to get a big power hit in sensitive traction conditions.

Reformed Squid: I am in Katy and will definitely look you guys up.
My wife was good enough to let me get this thing, I've got to be careful how much I spend on her (the bike I mean) in the short term.

[TxCan01]

Peter et al: Do you guys have the same feeling about the Techlusion product (need a good tuner)? I realize any messing with fueling is best done with a dyno at the ready but seems as though the Techlusion product can be set up fairly easy with minor adjustments.
Anybody can comment on it's improvement to a stock motorcycle and adaptability to adding a exhaust etc, later?

[chewie]

Originally Posted by Bob Hancock

I just got used to it.....really not that big a deal anymore.

+1 and is the cheap option, leaving you money for more important things like bling...lol

[peter f]

Originally Posted by TxCan01

Peter et al: Do you guys have the same feeling about the Techlusion product (need a good tuner)? I realize any messing with fueling is best done with a dyno at the ready but seems as though the Techlusion product can be set up fairly easy with minor adjustments.
Anybody can comment on it's improvement to a stock motorcycle and adaptability to adding a exhaust etc, later?

Well

After MANY dead ends with that #$%@%$@ RapidBike3 (waste of money since there's no tuner here and Robert can't remote tune the thing - time zone matters) I conclude to the elementary assumption that one should eat as much pies as he can...

Maybe PC with the open code/map mentality (that follows ANY US product) is a better solution. That said...I know that every bike is different blah blah blah...but I clealry can't justify that RapidBike "exclusive" (and/or on dyno) map availability...we are NOT racers after all ...what could be the BIG difference if DimSport would/could provide maps?

All in all the difference between RB<>PC is the one found in products made in Europe and US, the former is a "closed" thing (with all that nonsense about each bike being unique et all) the latter an "open" one.

If you install a pipework later on :

1. Stay calm > bike could run leaner > but > not the end of the world > be cool.

2. Take the challenge (find tuner FIRST and ask prove that promises are ....) and install PC/RB

3. Get a Techlusion plug and play thing - no tuner.

4. Get that FRK new kid in the block wonder thing - no tuner (from Robert Foster)

Me? I'm ready to uninstall that pointless RB3 and find peace of mind (back to the future, he he), no kidding...R12S is an old goat after all...if you want fireworks and/or wild things get a 1198.

[peter f]

PS: we are NOT racers (er...the majority of us), thus the search for 1,34 ponies more (at 13345,98 rpm) is totally pointless ...thus get the pipework that looks the best (i.e the HPE, he he) and has the best sound (ditto). Forget ultimate power (a boxer is about that "riding the torque" thing after all)

Don't forget: we are NOT racers...

Ahem.

[Peter Parts]

Originally Posted by TxCan01

Peter et al: Do you guys have the same feeling about the Techlusion product (need a good tuner)? I realize any messing with fueling is best done with a dyno at the ready but seems as though the Techlusion product can be set up fairly easy with minor adjustments.
Anybody can comment on it's improvement to a stock motorcycle and adaptability to adding a exhaust etc, later?

The right-feeling relation of wrist and motion is a behavioral issue. You pays your money and you takes your choice. In days of yore, BMW put different cams in the throttle grip gear to find the best feeling solution. For sure, we do most of our riding in the first couple of degrees of throttle rotation so that part ought to be expanded. But a throttle counter-force spring will always be helpful because you can't do good throttle setting while futzing against a strong spring.

I guess I've said enough times how dim it is to tune a street bike with an inertial dyno; and that's exactly what DynoJet also says about the PCIII. I had a chat with a new owner of a part-load dyno (who was recently trained by DynoJet in Nevada). He said he could tune a Techlusion to a fare-thee-well on his machine.

The Techlusion has wonderfully intuitive controls. If your tach is working, if you have a little screwdriver in your shirt pocket, and if you have the right road with stretches for comparison as you do the adjustments (I circled Lake Superior to do it), then piece of cake to get it just right. And you can re-adjust any time.

I've come to think the R1100S (only model I can talk about) doesn't go especially lean with simple mods. On the other hand, the Techlusion will sweeten the mix so that the engine runs more flexibly and thus is a whole lot nicer for ordinary knocking about. In other words, a nice addition but no fire-breather.

The Motronic 2.4 goes lean on acceleration. The Techlusion has an accelerator "pump" - I have no idea how it works and they ain't saying. With the pump and with general enrichment, you might feel the benefits. Not sure about the other add-ons. For sure, no easy way to examine acceleration performance on a dyno without a lot of effort.

Can anybody build a better fueling map than BMW in an hour on a dyno with a RB or PC? Don't think I can and there are many pitfalls too. Recently some discussion at PP about the limitations of dyno testing (from Lennie who we all greatly respect). Well guys, you can't say that dynos have limitations and ALSO say you must tune your PCIII on a dyno. BMW runs their models a whole lot on roads before signing-off on the software (and even then they can need updates).

About the FRK, it tells the engine it is cold outside. Duh. Yes, that brings about certain helpful changes to the ECU. Blunt instrument? Yes, very. Some people raise the fuel pressure by substituting another regulator and they like it. Seems pretty blunt too. Should a BMW owner use a blunt instrument?

[TxCan01]

Peter: Thanks, agree with many of your comments. My first Beemer so I'm feeling this out a bit.
Most of us have probably been down the road of getting caught up in mods for mods sake or finding every bit of performance, and many still enjoy it, after all it is a hobby for most. The problem is that most, me included, rarely have the time, money, committment, etc, etc to really make the most of it and improve on what the factory has offered. Anyway, I'm not interested in making the R12 into a fire breather and to be honest so far I'm not having any driveability issues per se. I do note the "lull" in the midrange and the nice hit on top (albeit short lived). No lean surging or anything noted at steady state cruise. All in all a good running bike as you'd expect.
My post started about the early non linearity of the throttle and evolved into discussions about intake management stuff which are two different issues. I'll no doubt look at a open up the exhaust side in the future and adding a FI management device but I want to ensure I don't go down a road of disappointment. thx

[peter f]

How true.

PS: fueling and non-linear throttle are (in a way) "interrelated" things...but...all things considered...forget it and eat the pie that's already served.

Take care

[BMathison]

TxCan01 - As others have already said, you will get used to the non-linear throttle in no time. I have had mine for a couple years now and have forgotten about it long ago. Probably within the first weeks of riding it.
Of course, that seems to have bitten me in a strange way a few weeks ago. While taking part in a road test on a bike that uses throttle by wire, I was spit off. It didn't help that I had it set to the Sport program, but when I instinctively grabbed some throttle coming out of a slow corner, I got more than I bargained for. It was completely my fault, but I should have been more careful to get used to it until I had a little more time on the bike.

I have had a little down time to reflect on the crash (broke some body parts & scuffed some gear) and figure it out, and it seems that I was used to the larger twist of the throttle from my bike before it did anything I had to worry about. It didn't help that cold tires and dusty pavement were involved, but I believe that the throttle difference was the first to set everything in motion.

[Rixster]

Originally Posted by peter f

Well

After MANY dead ends with that #$%@%$@ RapidBike3 (waste of money since there's no tuner here and Robert can't remote tune the thing - time zone matters) I conclude to the elementary assumption that one should eat as much pies as he can...

Maybe PC with the open code/map mentality (that follows ANY US product) is a better solution. That said...I know that every bike is different blah blah blah...but I clealry can't justify that RapidBike "exclusive" (and/or on dyno) map availability...we are NOT racers after all ...what could be the BIG difference if DimSport would/could provide maps?

All in all the difference between RB<>PC is the one found in products made in Europe and US, the former is a "closed" thing (with all that nonsense about each bike being unique et all) the latter an "open" one.

If you install a pipework later on :

1. Stay calm > bike could run leaner > but > not the end of the world > be cool.

2. Take the challenge (find tuner FIRST and ask prove that promises are ....) and install PC/RB

3. Get a Techlusion plug and play thing - no tuner.

4. Get that FRK new kid in the block wonder thing - no tuner (from Robert Foster)

Me? I'm ready to uninstall that pointless RB3 and find peace of mind (back to the future, he he), no kidding...R12S is an old goat after all...if you want fireworks and/or wild things get a 1198.

I agree with your train of thought. Would you like to sell your RB3??

[peter f]

Originally Posted by Rixster

I agree with your train of thought. Would you like to sell your RB3??

Not a bad Idea at all ...although finally I manage to find someone capable to write down some maps for that thing...bike goes strong - but I don't care anymore ((a) my nerves are broken and (b) I've lost faith to all that nonsense).

Make me an offer (NOTE: RB3 is paid in Euros in No mans Land (Greece)...that means...A LOT more than US prices > 600E for the ECU, 100E for the harness, 80E for the handlebar switch, 80E for these L eliminators).

Honestly, and...realistically speaking it could be a more viable solution for me to find(?) someone(??) here in Greece willing(???) to take home that super gizmo (860 Euros are a LOT in dollars).

PS : see the ideal place to put the thing (DON'T put it over the battery - rain)

The Heat is OFF (almost)