All this talk on new bikes

[Kieran R1100S]

Where does the R12S lie?
There have been some guys asking and picking up R1100S's out there. Why?
Is that bike that good it still attracts owning one. Is there still no alternative?
I have owned two and only bought the 12S because the wife no longer wants to ride. With that said it would be hard to go back to the 11S after owning a 12S because of the motor drive-train upgrades, makes the 11S very agricultural.
One of us has posted his upgrade from the 12S to a 1098S.
I have ridden with a few guys that have 1098's and they are kick ass performance.
You can only stay with them on very tight roads, because there power out of corners leave you floundering to try and bring on the power that can't match there's. Yes they have it all over the 12S.
So why are we hanging onto our 12S.
Is there a worthy replacement out there?
What would it take to get your butt off one and onto another bike?
One of the group I ride with just bought a RC8S and I went with him on his test ride. The bike can be set up with peg and bar movement for more comfy riding. It's very much like the dukes motor with gobs of power but still didn't have me wanting one!
So are we exclusive with our 12S's or are we getting left behind in the performance race?
I can't see the boxer motor ever matching the V twins performance!
Is this the end of the road for it?

[cageyar]

The R12S for me is just about the perfect machine.
First and foremost, it fits me physically when most bikes don't-falls right to my hands and I get zero buffeting because of my height.
With the modifications I've made, I'm maybe 128-130 at the crank. That's more than enough for me to hit terminal velocity on most curves. I really don't care if a bike has 193, 173, 153 hp or what the exact number is-when I shift my R12S at redline, with the suspension sag set right, the front pops a little when I bang third and most guys I see are behind me no matter what hp they have. Granted I don't ride with anyone on a 1098, 1198 or GSXR1000 and I'm sure they'd smoke me. But I'm going plenty hard for me, wearing out the sides of my tires before the tops. I've never felt so comfortable on a bike and I've owned plenty.
I'm very happy with the R12S.

[2wheelmike]

Even BMW admits the air-cooled boxers can match the performance of the modern water-cooled, four-valve per pot, longitudinal V-twin with its much better aerodynamics. I got 12S cause it looked like a beautiful mix of old and new and cause I wanted to slow down a bit. But now find myself riding much faster in the corners, no doubt due to the superb handling of the 12S and cause I've been following some fast Pelicans around the roads of Central and So. Cal. and learning.

[2wheelmike]

Can't match. Can't match. Jeez my typing is bad...

[tim22]

Not sure what you're gettin' at here Kieran, but a few things you wrote I have thought about too.

About moving up to a 12S from an 11S because your wife no longer enjoys riding on the back, I'd do the same thing if it were not for my wife (and occasionally (rarely!) my step-daughter) enjoying a ride on the back of my BCR. I covet the 12S and would even entertain the HP2S were it not for the price. The 12S is more in-line with my budget.

As for the other high-end bikes you mentioned that "kick ass," I don't think about them much because they are out of my price range and you cannot truly ride them anywhere NEAR their potential on the street, so all of the performance advantages really aren't an advantage. Sure, it's cool to have all that technology and everything, and don't get me wrong, I drool over the MV Augustas, Aprillias, Bimotas, and of course the R1000SS, but they are pure race and just not intended for the street.

I think the reason people hold onto their 12S's (and why I am holding onto my BCR) is because they are the correct balance of utility and performance for us. Some want more utility, some want more performance, but they suit those of us still own them. I don't think we are even IN the performance race, nor do we care that much.

[Kieran R1100S]

I totally agree with you Tim, that's where I am right now. My R12S has the ballance for my needs at the present.

[cageyar]

It's great when everything works out and eveybody's happy.

[shreddr]

Kieran did you actually ride the RC8?

[Mad Otter]

My 1100S is wonderful...plenty of power (torque actually) and superb handling, my 1200GS has the same and the added bonus of more upright seating for 2up. I wasn't prepared to buy the 12S when it came out since I just got the GS and was pretty comfortable with the 1100S at the time. I thought the 12S looked interesting but was too quirky for my taste and besides, at the time the 11S was plenty performance.
Now 5 years down the road I'm ready to reach a little farther...thus the order for the SKRR.
Many have asked me if I am intending to trade in my 11S and I answer, "why? Its a perfect bike." And it is...fast enough, gobs of torque, smooth predictable handling, and gorgeous lines. I will always hang on to her (her name is Momo) because of all of those things and the memories of wonderful roads, people, and times that I have shared with her.
She has a sense of life all her own...and shares it with me...what could be finer?

[ckcarr]

Why would you not pick up an R1100S for $4,500 to $6,500 when some went for $16,400 when new? It's like buying a used Mercedes, the quality and value is still there. There are genuine bargains out there.

There are different tiers of buyers for these bikes (and just in general). Basically, those that buy new, those that love the pre-owned bargain, Those that always wanted one but could never justify the new price, and some that like the fixxer upper. Plus countless other reasons.

I doubt however, that there are very many people with the wherewithal to buy new, any bike they want, that would be picking up an R1100S as their primary new ride. As a secondary sport/tourer, possibly. But the new bike shopper may or may not be buying at all right now. Instead they might be waiting for a future offering (that may never happen).

[Yellow12]

Originally Posted by ckcarr

Why would you not pick up an R1100S for $4,500 to $6,500 when some went for $16,400 when new? It's like buying a used Mercedes, the quality and value is still there. There are genuine bargains out there.

.

I like that one Craig.
Wouldn't it be like buying a used..... BMW

Ant

[peter f]

Originally Posted by shreddr

Kieran did you actually ride the RC8?

Indeed ...it's highly advisable (and if possible the R type with the other butterfly throttle linkage installed - NOT the "race" one).

PS: the problem with the R12S is not the low power...is the archaic mechanical solutions present (and ultimately the rpm band that's considered safe for fireworks - especially if warranty expires) :

That is...not ride by wire (forest of cables and splitters), ancient cam chain tensioners (mine failed twice), other chain tensioners (failed once), pushrods et all, hidden ECU maps (the secret of the Century?), that riding into hot town(s) little matter (solved), the bad primary coil sealing (wash and go?), the upper Telelever shock bolt (Nitron do you copy?), the non floating disks (solved with Alth) etc etc.

In fact the R12S is a sporty bike with a giant trail bike (GS) motor/"engineering mentality" directly attached (with very few mods to really justify the scope). Kinda like the thing that Harley does in a "sport" model that I forgot how's called.

[chewie]

I love the 12S, it's got character and it's fairly rare, people still look at it like "what the hell is that thing?". I've had a few people take photo's of it in the street and many come up and ask about it.

The 11S is a real classic bike imho. Classic, timeless styling...beautiful, very sharp and very quick if the right person is on it so....yeah ya know.

For once I am comfortable, in more ways than one.

Spose it just depends on how your feeling when you've got some cash in your hands and your ready to buy something hey? For me, well I hope to keep the 12, get a dirt bike/adv bike then later on a track tool, then I'll be happy. Oh maybe an XR1200 too, ooh a trials bike would be fun too and a motard...

One thing is for sure, I am entering an aquisition phase as far as bikes go. I'm not selling to buy something else, I'm saving till I can get something else as an appropriate stable mate.

What are you gonna do Kieran? How is the back holding up? Have you got heli's on that thing I don't remember? You say the 12 meets your needs at present but I can smell your itchy feet from here

[AndrewA]

Originally Posted by tim22

I think the reason people hold onto their 12S's (and why I am holding onto my BCR) is because they are the correct balance of utility and performance for us. Some want more utility, some want more performance, but they suit those of us still own them. I don't think we are even IN the performance race, nor do we care that much.

Well said.

[BumbleBeemer36]

I thought this thread was going to ask "why all the talk about buying new bikes when we're in a recession and supposedly have no mula?"
I happen to like the "agricultural-ness" of my R11S. Coming up from an airhead, it felt familair but vastly improved. But why not an R12S? I already have an old CBR that will still run circles around most of the new bikes out there...given the right rider --- I'm not that rider. The real reason for not getting too excited about an R12 or an HP2 or the new SKRR is money. I don't make 6 fig like it seems most Pelicaners do. Also, I have other hobbies that consume my income and I enjoy having 6 older bikes to one brand new one. And then there is insurance, oh geez!
I guess if you've got the means then "party on". As for me, I count myself very lucky to be able to own any "modern" BMW and I've already become so attached to my r11s it will certainly be the last bike in my garage if hard-er times hit.

[turboflyer]

I am going to keep my 05 BCP until the kids or wife sells it. I had a moment of revelation one day at a dealership looking at the Ducati, again. Just beautiful and powerful but I could never use it to its potential and I still have to get to and from the mountains. So now I am looking at adding a true tourer to the garage. May be an RT, or Gold wing, or GT not sure. I wounder if when I am in the old folks home will they let me out to look at new bikes. Hope so.

[Kieran R1100S]

Shreddr, yes I did ride it! That in a minute.
Chewie, i've got a sciatic nerve playing up on me, when I sit down, giving me grief, am doing exercises trying to keep it at bay, bloody thing, learning to live with it. Put the helli bars on but I am in 2 moods about them. Reason is they put you upright enough to give you a bit of releif off the wrists but for me it puts you in a different seating position when taking a corner. I like a forwardd lean for going around corners, I feel more part of the bike, so the helli bars sit you up. You can have them on in under an hour so I think it could be a case to leave them off and put them on if going on a extended trip. Now that I have them I can say for me they are a waste of money.

Now for riding the RC8.
We took the 2008 RC8 fitted with a after market exhuast and was chipped.
All the mention of bad throttle responce and gearbox notchy shifting was not present on this bike.
Yes it has a very responsive throttle and when going slow and over bad roads it can give you a searging feeling but only in that sinario. Once you got going and could put some pace down it was fine.
The exhuast sounds great at start up but once underway can be a pain because it is very load, I don't know if it comes with a choke as standard to silence it down if required.
The go factor is F**king Fast. It's very quick and has a feel of huge torque. No need to keep changing gears, very much like the R12. The bike has so much power that one has to say I can't see a bike being faster.
I was very impressed that KTM has allowed for bar and peg adjustment on this bike. A very nice touch. The clip on's can be lifted 1'' or 25mm from a already nice position. The bar seat height is already generous as standard, combine that with peg adjustment which can be shimmed to be lower and you end up with that same bar to seat height that I have on the 12S with helli bars fitted.
It steared very precise and the brakes are out of this world. One finger imput is all that is needed to bring it to a slow.
With all that said the test ride was for my mate that is picking up a 2009 RC8R this Saturday. He traded a RSV1000 which he had for 3 years from new. He paid $24,990 for it 3 years back put 29,000km on it and got $12,500 for a trade in. The new bike was $32,900 pluss $3,500 for the pipe. I road the Aprilia RSV a few times and that is a fantastic ballanced bike, but when now riden in comparison with the RC8 it's like comparing a 11S to a 12S if you know what I mean.
If I had the cash to buy a new bike I wouldn't rush out to buy the RC8. It's not as sexy as a 1098 but more of a raw looking copy.
I think a better colour would do it more justice!
I don't know where I am with my bike at the moment. Some days I love it and other days I'm left wanting, but don't know what I'm wanting, if that makes sence.

For now I will be putting up my R12S against his new RC8R so I'll post the antics of that in a few weeks.
I am fitting new Bridgestone 014's this week the last set I have so we will both have new tyres when we get out next.
Oh the 016's front wore real bad to the exstent I wore the front out before the rear. 3,200km is all I got. That front duell or tripple compond didn't work for me. The rear no problem

[shreddr]

thanks Kieran, I would love to try an RC8. like i mentioned before it definitely has a lot of the design elements i like in a bike. there was a post here about how KTM isn't doing so well inthe market, which I assume is the case with all of them, but since they are smaller, the impact is probably greater. maybe i can pick up an RC8 for a song!

[KMoore]

Originally Posted by shreddr

... maybe i can pick up an RC8 for a song!

This song?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g266Uwp6ZnI

Or this?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3IqFeGjUkU&feature=related (not the original, but nicely done)

[chewie]

Kieran - Interesting note about the heli's, I hadn't thought about that before.

Damn sciatica, bugger!

Kev - love that first tune and clip I'm putting it into my sig line