Great.

Cayeger - your vast experience in the automotive and motorcycle industries is very impressive (to say the least).

Do you think you could you walk us through some of the key steps in changing to "high bars", and how that might relate to alignment?


Thanks in advance for your answer,

Good thing Harley Davidson didn't ask for advice. Their bikes have gone straight forever with or without the rider's consent.

No, I submit that all real makers/engineers consider the no hands possibility as they would be in a world of hurt if the bike flopped on its side or did figure eights when hands were removed. They just didn't think you needed to know that. We flatlanders know that its entirely possible to ride with hands folded in prayer, but I will concede that its hard to turn significantly at speed making the true no handed experience somewhat frustrating. We're just going to have to wait for those thought control modules to emerge.

geo

Its always possible to ride without your hands on the bars using body english, however slight to make the bike go straight. You can submit your theories all day long about motorcycles being designed by engineers to be operated without the riders hands on the handlebars but that just exists in your head. As a favor to you, I'll submit this gem to my friends still working in, you know, the motorcycle industry, so they can factor your operational parameter into their next design:

"I will concede that its hard to turn significantly at speed making the true no handed experience somewhat frustrating."http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/silly.gif

Wow, you really are obtuse.
My answer to geothepencil was in response to to his statement:

"To my knowledge they are not designed not to be operated with no hands either."

I simply used the example of a test session using different handlebars to illustrate how in that one instance engineers did not and do not consider any handling parameter caused by the result of the riders not having his hands on the handlebars. I never suggested that trying different bars had anything to do with alignment. If you are a lawyer, you must be a really crappy one.

I'm going to leave you, geothepencil and the rest of the "how do I diagnose my bike's handling issues when my only indicated symptom is drifting to the right when my hands are off the bars, I'm not using any body english to make the bike go straight and my bike has no other damage" club to spend your time finding solutions to this tricky problem. I'm going to the track to do some demo rides and other meaningful pursuits. Life's too short to join your "organization".http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...sun_smiley.gif

My '01 pulls to the right with hands off the bars. I understand the road crown theory, but this bike pulls way more than any other I've owned.
D Man

A question for pmc847: It appears to me that the factory offset is .1 inch to the left of center. If you made a thicker shim requiring longer bolts didn't you increase offset rather than eliminating it? What am I missing here?

The bike is unlike any other bike with it's flat engine rotating in that direction and a particular wheel offset. The fact that it does with your hands off the bars, barring any other damage, is not indicative of a problem if everything else functions normally with your hands on the bars. Mr. pmc847 in post #12 of this thread made a nice spacer to minimize the effect of the wheel offset. Barring any damage to your bike from a tip over, impact, etc., you may wnat to try something like he did, although, with all due respect to pmc847, IMO, it's not necessary.

Now that I'm back I apparently need to remind you all that I AM THE SMARTEST MAN IN THE WORLD!!

Not this new lame brain, who seems to want to post his resume as the start of every frikkin' response. Trivial responses primarily. Why he responds so many times that he could be a Pelican Board unto himself. And if you disagree, look out! YOU ARE A RACIST!!

Remember, one quality post in a year is worth far more than 1,000 meaningless responses just to hear oneself talk.

The smart man says little but says a lot!!

HaHaHa, now where's THE CAPTAIN when he's needed?

Surprising that this topic has gotten this far. We have beat it to death for years over at I-BMW.com particularly on the K1200RS/GT bikes which have offsets, spacers and goofy front tire wear as a given. Stop on by over there and do some searches for the collective wisdom of dozens of exasperated K bike owners.

One of the best suggestions was to put all your beer in the left bag. Another member claims that riding naked made the pull to the right disappear. Yet another just kept asking for someone to pull his finger. Most of the discontent came from the KRS having a great electronic cruise control as an option on many of the bikes and the resultant boredom of their owners on long trips. The throttle control springs on those models are multiples of the force really required and the cruise control was viewed as a great partial solution short of modifying the springs.

I admit to having played around with it myself on occasion, but the whale sized side area and crosswinds make it work most of the time even without the built in direction help from the bikes.

geo

You are right again, it is not necessary. Either are the other mods I've done but I did them anyway for my own enjoyment and fun. I feel the mods performed have made this a better bike for me. YMMV.

Philip
"It's a great bike but I can make it better, then blow it up and then make it better again".

04 R1100S BCR # 195
03 R1100S BCR #44 R.I.P. new home with 'onekiwi'
102.3 RWHP and 76.3 Torque
1150 cc cylinders
12:1 SJBMW pistons
BMW 36 mm intake valves
Ported and polished heads (just a little) by SJBMW
'07 R1200R cams
TBs bored +3 mm
RC Engineering Injectors (370 cc/min)
Throttle bodies matched to rubber mounts matched to heads
SJBMW Exhaust Accelerator Kit (modified)
Exhaust pipe welds ground down
Laser Exhaust
Laser 2 spark Chip
InDuct
SJ PowerFilter
K's 3.5 bar regulator
Ohlins
Sargant Seat
Spiegler SS Brake Lines
LED tail/stop light and turn signals
Aux Fuel Tank (6.8 gallons total)

"The world is too dangerous to live in-not because of the people who do evil, but because of the people who sit and let it happen." (Albert Einstein)

That and road crowning are the whole story for all practical purposes.
The engine rotation has nothing to do with steady state pull (in either direction) as the crankshaft has to be accelerating (incl DEcel) to cause a torque reaction.
That's why the bike twists when you blip the throttle (crank accel then decel) and not all the time. Not sure why that gets brought up so often, as it's just not a factor. (for the topic here, of steady state, as implied by hands-off)