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BMW Roundel BMW R1100S Abnormal engine behavior

this forum is too crazy for a european!

Last edited by TrikeFlyer; 10-23-2009 at 02:04 PM..
Old 10-21-2009, 09:08 AM
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I'll just step into this one.

Have you substituted your induct with a coiled dryer external tube?You'll be able to wind this around the bars and easily attach a large funnel on the end.I've done a lot of work on my 87 70hp evinrude with the timing and your probably right on the mark with this. Its best to fiddle with this while running it down the road at speed. If your good experiment with different cross sections of induct area as these are interconnected.
I would also do away with carbs and use Lectrons as they have no real jets and are easy to work with.Often my potmeter goes off and my neighbour tells me to stop smoking it?
Old 10-21-2009, 10:02 AM
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Have you checked the turbo encabulator? Here's a short how-to clip that will get you pointed in the right direction.

Understanding The Turbo Encabulator*Video
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:28 AM
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this forum is too crazy for a european!

Last edited by TrikeFlyer; 10-23-2009 at 02:10 PM..
Old 10-21-2009, 10:52 AM
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A normal timing light can be used. On the right side of the engine there is a rubber plug to the rear of the cylinder. Remove the plug and you can see the timing marks on the flywheel.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:09 AM
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Thank you, Trikeflyer. Must be grand to fly with a microplane.

Painful to have an intermittent and not easy to do a fault tree - esp. in the air.

But your situation is different because you have access to the flywheel and can add timing marks. Is that right? Also, you can run under load while on the tarmac; no way to explore timing unless the rpm and the TPS are running in the operating ballpark (on normal parts of the ECU map). So that's a lot better than bikers can do.

Pretty sure Brad Black published spark timing curves - needs three dimensions, not including ambient temperature, if I recall. Could be wrong. Even if for a different engine, same principles apply.

I wouldn't suspect ignition timing problems first. The sensor has no flyball weights - just a reasonably dependable magnetic sensor. The timing is electronic and so if the sensor plate has not rotated (can only go maybe 3 degrees, tops), there should be nothing amiss with timing.

The cables leading from the Hall sensor are a weak link and go bad. A person with lots of experience there is Moybin. Ask him. That may be your issue. For sure, would be bad for them to go open-circuit at an inopportune moment.

I've been greatly interested in timing - a key piece of engine ops. Each time i've asked for help in how to do it with an alpha-n ECU (four boards, multiple times), I've either gotten ignorant answers or no answers and from people who ought to know better.

Wish I could be more help. Good luck. Sorry about the static you got in this thread. I'm not sure what levert's problem is.

Darn, these engines are so reliable and dull, a guy never learns much about fixing them.

Unsolicited advice: your TPS voltage is to spec. But unlike bikes that go down to zero throttle all the time, you don't need to fuss over popback as much. So you can twist the TPS and raise the voltage which will spice your A/F. Bikers can't do that, but you can. It will affect ignition timing - dunno how much.

Last edited by Boybiker3; 10-21-2009 at 11:24 AM..
Old 10-21-2009, 11:17 AM
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RBMann, I know about the plug. Its the one where OT_ is stamped?
In what position should it be and in which RPM ?
Old 10-21-2009, 11:18 AM
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this forum is too crazy for a european!

Last edited by TrikeFlyer; 10-23-2009 at 02:05 PM..
Old 10-21-2009, 11:39 AM
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Get timing right. Then play with mixture. At what rpm are you considering 450-500mV?
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:43 AM
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Thumbs up E-Z Rider!

Greetings,

Sir your not airworthy with what you describe.

Safety First!

BMW and an airframe:

Member E-Z Rider is the man to ask!

PM Him!
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Last edited by boxercup; 10-21-2009 at 11:53 AM..
Old 10-21-2009, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrikeFlyer View Post
Hi Ben (Boybiker3),
Yes, trikeflying is like driving a Bike in the air!
You can have a look at my trike YouTube - Chaser S 377 Testflying
This is not the one with the BMW engine, this one is with a 2-stroke Rotax engine.

The problem is that the Hall plate has been tampered with and therefore I dont know if it is in athe right position or not...... We experienced that we got 6500 RPM with a litle cold engine, but it dropped to 6000RPM with hot engine and it runs uneven and rought. I will try to twist the TPS to 450MV and then to 500MV and see how it runs.
Best regards.
Thanks for video. I'm dreaming....

I love flying STOLs, like the Bombardier Q400 I was in yesterday (en-route to my work at our space headquarters near Montreal). Wheels left the ground in 19 seconds of rolling.

I'd eyeball the TPS angle rather than voltage per se. Going from present position to plus 4 extra degrees of "virtual butterfly" - and then recording the voltage for future reference.

The stock timing plate has only little slots. So not too much slop possible there. But all the more reason to wonder about the wires - a known weakness.

The ECU has a barometric sensor. But you are flying within mountain heights.

Might be funny issues of heat distribution in an aircraft. Airheads had a spark amplifier that would over-heat, trigger safety circuits, and show very odd symptoms.
Old 10-21-2009, 11:56 AM
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BMW Roundel This is Peter --- Peter Parts! Nice Setup Boy/Ben!

[QUOTE=TrikeFlyer;4964717]Hi,
We have a flying Trike(its a flying microplane with a propeller) that has a BMW R1100S engine from 1998.
The engine runs nice sometimes, but suddenly it starts to run bad. Especially when the engine is hot, or in normal temperature.

I have checked valve clearance, and the carbs are roughly calibrated and the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is tuned to 392MV with the throttle on static. Throttle cable is also roughly calibrated. It runs nice when it is cold, but the story changes when it gets hot. Someone may have tempered with the ignition timing I have heard.......

Anyone who has experience about this? Is there any way to find out the position of the right timing of the ignition without BMW equipment?


OH ONLY BEN WITH HIS EXPERIENCE

How about you Ben, do you have any suggestions ? I know you have a mans age of BMW experience. You must have experimented with your timing ignition...?
Best regards, Peter[
/QUOTE]

Hi Peter,

How are you and Ben doing! Been to lunch with Boy yet?

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Old 10-21-2009, 12:01 PM
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'I've either gotten ignorant answers or no answers and from people who ought to know better.'

ah yes. the world is wrong and YOU are right.

Remember, there is now a syndrome for the symptoms you seem to exhibit:
'******'s syndrome'.

The clinical psychologist's handbook describes this malady as 'overeducated ignoramus cluelessly blovinating about things hes has no idea about while desperately attempting to appear competent'

sad, really.

Obviously a securty risk as determined by DHS.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:09 PM
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BMW Roundel

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonyRR View Post
'I've either gotten ignorant answers or no answers and from people who ought to know better.'

ah yes. the world is wrong and YOU are right.

Remember, there is now a syndrome for the symptoms you seem to exhibit:
'******'s syndrome'.

The clinical psychologist's handbook describes this malady as 'overeducated ignoramus cluelessly blovinating about things hes has no idea about while desperately attempting to appear competent'

sad, really.

Obviously a securty risk as determined by DHS.
Jony you say it well.

I was thinking:



LMAO

How are you doing>?

As always, Best Regards!
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrikeFlyer View Post
RBMann, I know about the plug. Its the one where OT_ is stamped?
In what position should it be and in which RPM ?
Here is the data sheet, which is the best answer I can give. I will be going out to check mine and get back to you.

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Old 10-21-2009, 12:48 PM
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Bull**** and harrasment is the last thing that I need in my life !
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY should have to call me a clown on any board because there is no need for that.
I have asked you kindly to remove this post about me, but you have ignored it and therefore I dont longer want to be a part of this forum. Its sad because you guys have a lot of knowhow, but you use it the wrong way.
I hope that you guys live a long and lovely life, but please stop up for a minute and think of what you are really posting.

Last edited by TrikeFlyer; 10-23-2009 at 02:19 PM..
Old 10-21-2009, 12:55 PM
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That strikes me as very high at idle. VERY high. I'd highly recommend getting setup with a timing light and a gas analyzer if you're going to play with this, given the inherent additional 3D risk. I'd also be tempted to a new hall sensor and wiring, given the fragile nature thereof.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:47 PM
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roger albert: we need a high RPM to keep the 3 blade propeller running. Otherwise it will be a heavy load for the engine. When we land at idle, we dont want the engine to stop just in case.....
Old 10-21-2009, 02:03 PM
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Fair enough. You know much more there than I do. What sort of throttle opening is that at (degrees or percent) and what sort of rpm?
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:09 PM
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I suggest you talk to this guy:

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