BUELL over or not?

[LeanRider]

What is story with Buell?
They had a decent spot at EICMA promoting 2010 models.
Is it over or not?

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by LeanRider

What is story with Buell?
They had a decent spot at EICMA promoting 2010 models.
Is it over or not?

Dead as a doornail. HD in the EU must have already committed to the show, spent the money they couldn't get back and followed through. They have 2010 they need to lose. The Buell Italia site has the same message from Erik Buell-goodbye.

[michaelrm69]

Saw this on another site. Don't know the info behind the picture, but it seems to say it all...


http://www.roadracerx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/buell-1.jpg

[RBMann]

While never a fan of the brand, that photo seems so wasteful, I like them even less now.

[markjenn]

The continued marketing activity around Buell appears to be due to the suddenness of the Harley axe that left a number of commmittments that couldn't be backed out of. Normally, there would be more lead time to "wind down" marketing activities.

And there is still product in the channel to get sold. I applaud Harley for so far pledging continued support for the brand - new Buells will go away but there are going to be thousands of bikes on the road that need continued support.

- Mark

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by RBMann

While never a fan of the brand, that photo seems so wasteful, I like them even less now.

Those look like the single cylinder model they discontinued.
Sometimes, especially with a model the dealer's literally can't give away, it's cheaper to scrape them-that bin was likely destined for the crusher.
At Honda, we use to scrap excess bikes all the time-sometimes pre-production models with no vin-sometimes not.
Once, when we had discovered a problem with scrap bikes disappearing from the bin and showing up later for sale, we decided to destroy them before we put them in the bin for pickup.
I had two 600 Hurricanes' the first year 600 to destroy. In the training center, we drained out all the oil and coolant, put the ceiling exhaust system on the pipes and fired them. Full throttle. Waiting...waiting....waiting. Engine is getting hotter....hotter....hotter. Still running! All of a sudden, the rubber exhaust hose connected to the exhaust system in the ceiling, spontaneously bursts into flame along it's entire length, with the ball of fire going into the ceiling. Yikes!!!!
Fortunately, the fire didn't spread and I wasn't responsible for burning down the Honda eastern zone office.

[AZ-Twin]

Originally Posted by cageyar

Fortunately, the fire didn't spread and I wasn't responsible for burning down the Honda eastern zone office.

Originally Posted by cageyar

Thanks.
I've quit, been fired for cause (allegedly), laid off, voluntarily separated with a package, you name it and never belonged to a union. I've been lucky and stupid.

"What is fired?"

I'll take Cageyar's career for 1000 Alex.

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by AZ-Twin

"What is fired?"

I'll take Cageyar's career for 1000 Alex.

Very funny. Hey it was a long time ago. I actually got promoted later in the year.
I just modified "our" scrapping practices.

[BMWSaint]

Originally Posted by RBMann

... that photo seems so wasteful....

Agreed. I've never understood this mentality - why not strip the bikes for parts and sell or wholesale them. A lot of folks use these bikes for track days so having a cheap source for frames, wheels, handlebars, engines seems a more logical move.

And safer than torching them (cleaner for the environment as well) as I hear others may have tried...

[bradzdotcom]

back in the day, there were lots of reasons for scrapping bikes. the idea of any part of a test bike being handed to the public was horrifying. these were the top three reasons at the time:

#1. liability: it goes way back to a car magazine editor who bought a camaro "test car" for his daughter. steering breaks, she hits lightpole, life-changing injuries, sues GM, it's a no brainer.
then the auto industry introduced a new "magazine guy" deal, where we could lease a production vehicle of our choice (you even got to custom order it) for a dollar a year. at year's end you turned it in and got something else. worked great, no worries. selling pre-pros was over, liability eliminated, everybody happy, standard set.

#2 secrecy: having been unquestionably overpaid to be an r&d monkey, it was important to keep everyone away from what you were doing. many street prototype bikes were ridden only at night. early v-twins had their engines painted to mimick the H-D mill. add in the ability to easily bolt on another model or brand's fuel tank, side panels, etc..and it's not hard to hide something you're riding on a desolate road from midnight to dawn. prototypes were usually crated up and sent back home (along with the six man crew that came with it).

pre-production bikes are different. they're a representative sample, usually sent in a group of 25 and are essentially created by re-jigging parts of the assembly line and doing a short run. pre-pros were always crushed after they'd completed their testing. pre-pros were taken from the distributor's building directly to the crusher, accompanied by a few supervisors. many were in perfect working order...we rode them right into the truck for the ride to becoming quarter-size bits of scrap.
some items on pre-pros were component competitions: a bike due for a re-fresh had a crappy clutch, so japan came up with two new versions, equally installed both in pre-pros. bikes were pounced on, clutches abused. answers found, problem solved by proof.
pre-pros were also prone to...ahem....failure. steering heads broke off, lower fork legs fell off, throttles stuck...swingarms snapped...fun stuff.
there were also parts found on pre-pros that were never intended to come on the bike, but were being tested for a completely different machine. if the bike's instrument panel was tried and true, they might stick a proposed panel for a bike 2 years down the road, to test it in advance. you never really knew. selling off pre-pro parts was never considered, even if it was a part that had a multi-year history and hadn't changed.

#3. the big reason: big bucks: japanese are very good counters. they are even better accountants. the amount of perceived value in pre-pros puts those bikes, back when i was doing it, at well over 100k apiece for the "freshen-up" bikes and five or six times that amount for brand new model pre-pros.
but if you took this expensive bike back to japan...you couldn't deduct the value of the bike because you still have it, plus they would get hit with some nasty tax slap for exporting it.
so they'd bring a gaggle of them here, write them off on paper, then shred them like paper...and go on their merry way.

once in a while a pre-pro is probably still given as a reward (they used to be presented to a design team, but always housed in a secure cage in the warehouse).
one thing hasn't changed: the most highly valued bike to the manufacturers is the very first production unit to come off the assembly line. (again with the counting thing).
if they still hold to tradition, the first 25 production models of a new bike never experience a dealership, but are metered out in a mixture of thank you gifts or exiled to a lifetime of occupying a numbered pallet in the official archive warehouse.
or both.
lots of times the gift-bike recipient responded in kind, and immediately donated the bike to "the collection".

[markjenn]

Good post Brad.

Here's a very interesting article about Mazda's loss of 4K+ cars in a shipping accident. Nearly all were salvageable, most with only minor damage, but for various reasons, many as Brad mentions, all were scrapped.

Cougar Ace: The Great $103 Million Snafu at Sea - Feature - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

- Mark

[bradzdotcom]

nice link mark, and it sounded familiar. honda did a similar thing, but reportedly nastier thing with a few of their civics, rumor had it.

hope my post didn't sound like everything prototype was crushed and destroyed.
another "pipeline" that ran from japan to here went from the japanese race teams directly to the american aftermarket folks. they'd swap parts, trade info, benefit both.
it's always been one of those "back doors" that never seems to get locked, which is partially why you see actual factory race bikes and parts still cropping up today.
different channels. different rules.

there were also some workarounds. with the right/wrong? supervisor at the shredder, a savvy mechanic might assume that the sup might not specifically know the difference between "one set factory race forks" and the substituted practice bike forks with artistic exterior machining.
the adopted/swapped out forks would then find a comfortable home in afore-mentioned savvy mechanic's garage.

production test bikes were the bastids of the bike pool. nobody cared about them and i don't think they ever even bothered to count them. i believe a guy known as "the hag" was the first to combine dumpster diving, a big backpack and a large lunch pail to take home a complete motorcycle, one component at a time.
i remember hearing about him going to work one day with a large burrito in aluminum foil, and heading home with a set of front fork spokes wrapped in the same foil.
the man is a legend.

at one point, there were also a lot of production sport bikes in "the cage" that happened to be the same year/color as those personally owned by testing staff employees. i was always amazed at how often those caged bikes apparently suffered a low side crash, yet never moved.
selective swapping was always my guess.

truth be told, i did bend the shifter on my r-1 and hell, there were like 50 of them in the cage, and i happen to have my shifter AND a 10mm with me, so....

disclaimer: in keeping with tradition, one always swapped parts with the dustiest, most under-used bike in the cage. most often, you weren't the first one to find it. some of those bikes looked like death warmed over, yet had only been ridden a few hundred yards from set-up to the cage.

[pwillikers]

Announcing the formation of Erik Buell Racing 11/20/2009

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by pwillikers

Announcing the formation of Erik Buell Racing 11/20/2009

I sure hope this doesn't mean we're going to see 1125's again in AMA/DMG "production-based" racing, grandfathered in or wink-wink homologated.

- Mark

[hawkeyejohn14]

I figured Mr. Buell would do every thing in his power to keep his dream alive and kicking for however long, can't blame him. He's done more than than most already in his life. Good for him.

[roger albert]

Awesome news and link Paul. Let's go endurance yours next year. Get the full use of your warranty and all that. I'll adjust the shocks and try not to fall down too much.

[pwillikers]

Roger, I just returned from a break-in ride on Ferris (Buell(er)). I'm between 300 and 600 miles and therefore permitted to rev to 7500 rpm. Red line is 10,5. All I can say is HOLY CRAP is this thing fast. 146HP, ~10.5 1/4 mile is intimidating power and speed. It's gonna take some time to re-learn corner exits as compared to my 50HP MZ track bike of yore where I'd just whack it wide open. It'll be time well spent. Thank god the torque curve is a horizontal line. The ZTL brake is quite strong and the suspension very firm and very well sorted. I set it to the manual's recommended settings for my weight. I had thought that with such tight geometry it'd be a twichy ride. It's not. It even has a slight resistance to initial turn in. However, once set in the turn, it's stable as a rock. I could eat a sandwich and then take a nap mid turn. I'll probably increase rear ride height and lower the front a smidge. Also, I'll back off on compression damping for more road riding compliance.

I'm thinking there will be many track days for me in 2010 and of course, you're welcome to give it a buzz around.

[ckcarr]

Wait a minute!

So, you must have found a Harley dealer to your liking.

[roger albert]

Ha,

I don't think Paul liked them, but rather enjoyed beating them up

With the bike set to the book-specs, I'm not surprised initial turn-in is a bit heavy.
All of the Buells come with good setup instructions (arguably best in the biz) but ones that are very very conservative. They were no doubt set by Erik's lawyers, not the man himself. Put 2 clicks of preload in the rear and it'll be much happier still.

2 different TX dealers are rumored to be buying another round of the beasts to sell.
I haven't ruled one out yet, but am holding out for a killer deal, or none. Punched 'GO' on my order for a shock dyno last week, and have thus kinda killed disposable income for at least a year. Stupid little piece of equipment is half the size and twice the price of a new motorcycle. Ugh. It better be fun.

Thanks again for the ride report, Paul.

Craig, any updates on yours?

thanks
roger

[ckcarr]

Not many updates on mine. I put the side panels on. Looks very sharp. Then I've been buried at work and spread too thin right now. Am wondering if I should have bought that Ohlins, but there's always more stuff on eBay.