OT. why you shouldn't try to run
 

Don't piss em off or they will shoot you..

Ottawa Hills officer's trial begins, dash cam vid shown | Video | 13abc.com

I hope he gets the full jail term, and get f'ed hard in there every day - I can't believe they let idiots like that become officers of the law.

What running?? From the time he lit them up until he shot him was only 15 seconds, not much of a chase.

Looked like the guy was trying to find neutral, and I hope the prosecutor points out that he probably did not immediately throw op his hands because he was holding the clutch.

What is it with the shoot first, ask questions later mentality? This makes me angry.
As we now know, the officer got a full term vacation in the crowbar hotel.
Perhaps he'll be repeatedly invited to "take turns picking up the bar of soap".
The young man is still in a wheelchair.
Hardly justice.

Yes, well, sorry to say that’s the sort of thing that happens in a gun crazy society.:(

Shocking. I wouldn't want to be a loud pirate in Ottawa Hills based on the demos that I read about the place. Expect a higher degree of "law and order" in places like that.

On the local front here, our cops here have just been outfitted with some new SIG assault rifles that they are very proud of. Targets on the other hand still have a slim chance as a number of the new weapons go click instead of bang when called to duty.

Gun crazy ? Yeah we're crazy about a lot of fun things.

geo

uh oh. :)

I guess he shoulda used the kill switch. The cop sure tried to use his.

Welcome to the police state, it only gets worse as they expand their powers. In the last few years the police have quadrupled in my area. They shoot someone on an almost daily basis. It has nothing to do with gun happy & everything to do with an us against them attitude. Our police have lost their vision of law & order or justice & now deal it out on the streets as they see fit. I've been involved in an incident where we were arrested at gun point for riding over a wooden bridge in a park, nothing said we couldn't, no signs or warnings. Officer unfriendly came flying up, jumps out & draws down on us both. This is an area we visit often on our rides & had waved at the officers before as they drove by without incident. This moron however had other plans as he stated "you got trouble now". When he spotted my friends clip on his concealed holster he went totally weird on us. My friend kept telling him not to shoot him as he is grabbing for it & holding his gun at my friends head. If I wanted to at this time I could of easily drawn & shot this idiot as he was fixating on my friend. After clearing my friend he came for me & also disarmed me. For about the next hour and a half we were checked out, harassed & berated. Eventually a superior was called in & it was discovered we were allowed to carry legally where we were. There was still the question of the bridge ride & we were summoned for illegal riding, note this was a misdemeanor summons. After four court appearances we were found not guilty as charges were dropped for lack of evidence. Nobody we talked to even knew if the charges were legal or what the code on the summons was. Turns out they used the numbers on the sign at the entrance to the park which said nothing about riding anywhere. To say they've lost contact is underexagerating the point. We are the enemy! Beware & very afraid of the police.

While I don’t condone the officers actions for an instant I can understand that Police are very apprehensive in an environment where many of the people they have to deal with are armed. The fact that you and your friend where armed is case in point.

In places where Police officer’s almost never in their working lives come into contact with anyone armed with a hand gun, especially concealed on their person they understandably have a very different attitude and so do the jurisdictions they work for.

Owen,

I totally get your viewpoint, but as a former sworn peace officer I can tell you if that if the anecdotal tale from sgoodwin is ANYWHERE near accurately portrayed, drawing down on someone over a "supposed" misdemeanor infraction would have seen me placed on administrative leave for at least a month and would possibly have led to my de-certification as an officer. "Clearing" your holster should only be done in situations where the officer feels personally threatened or is conducting an arrest procedure on a known or suspected felon. Driving over a bridge is not a felony in this country. At least not to my knowledge. (LOL)

Possibly not enough information about the circumstances was given, but abuse of police powers DOES happen and is not to be condoned.

Back to the original posting/video clip....that dimwit officer should NEVER been sworn in....what a f'ing idiot!

Okay, I'll exit my soap box now...

Bill J

I agree that the officer will never get due punishment for paralyzing the kid.

If the cop had a brain he would have easily determined that unless the rider was Linda Blair from the exorcist, there is NO way the rider could turn and fire at him by rotating to his right. If the front of the bike is 12 o'clock, then the officer was approaching from the 7-8 o'clock direction, unless the rider just put the gun over his shoulder or head and aimed randomly, there is NO way he could twist clockwise enough to even see him in his peripheral vision, let alone aim and fire while straddling the bike.

Nope, I don't feel sorry for the cop, he either was a cowboy with a chip on his shoulder, or a hapless Barney Fife. Either way he should not be an officer.

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An example of restraint by armed officers who choose to use 9mm feet instead.

geo

Yes, well, sorry to say that’s the sort of thing that happens in a feet crazy society.

definitely not enough information, first off.

I dont care if you judge this incident harshly. It turned out all wrong, and there are mechanisms in place for dealing with it. Hell, maybe he was on the prowl to make some bones. I dont know the guy. But do you really suppose this guy was predisposed from the day he got hired to gun someone down for no reason?

I have pointed a gun at more people than i care to tell you about. And killed a guy about 3 sceonds after he walked out a door and pointed a .45 at me without a word. Three hours later, I was picking up my boy, and trying not to think about the alternative outcome.

Decisions made quickly, are decisions made. And sometimes wrongly.

sometimes, no matter how bad the results, it is just a huge horrible irrevesible error.

Brian, I'm sorry that happened to you buddy. The majority of LEO's go their entire career without having to use deadly force. Taking a life is not a pleasant thing to do. But, when facing the alternative- there is no alternative.

There are ONLY 2 outcomes of a motorcycle pursuit. Either the rider goes down, or gets away, Thats it. Theres no point in 222hp 4,500lb (with gear) vehicle to try to chase a 170hp motorcycle.

I worked for a yamaha dealer, there was a 22 year old kid that had his bike laid down by a neighbor and it was in there for the wreck repair. This kid was in there every day waiting, wishing for his bike to be done. I stayed one night to finish it. I went home, slept, came back into work at noon and did a ride to make sure everything was good and tight. Came back and wiped down the rotors, checked fluids, and gave it another once over. He picked it up 20min after I called at 6 to let him know it was done.

I got in from the weekend (closed monday too) and a few guys were sitting around the shop with thier heads down. The kid ran from a speeding ticket, lost it at 100, hit a fence, and then a tree, no helmet.

This came one month after we sold a new r6 to a 20yr old that was susposed to take it home cause he didnt have an endorsement, we offered over and over. He was susposed to take it home which was 4 miles away, instead he takes it on the interstate and opens it up with brand new rubber, 20min after turning that key, hes not with us.

I left after thoes events.

Ottawa Hills ? Isn't that Canada ? The canadians are not that gun fetishistic than most folks in the US, are they ?

But even we in bavaria had such a case a few years ago, it was a patrol of two policewomen who letally shot a thief in his back when he just tried to run in order to avoid his id card checked. Since that case there has to be one male officer in a patrol in Bavaria. The women obviously were too trigger-happy. :eek:

Ottawa is the national capitol of Canada, but this Ottawa hills is near Toledo Ohio in the US.

Canada is much more restrictive with gun laws, but do have a large hunting population and lots of long guns. I believe their restrictions lean more towards hand guns.

Not much of a pursuit though, about 10 seconds from the time he turned on the Siren until the kid stopped. Why the one guy crashed is beyond me, don't think he was running, but got distracted. Looks like the riders started to slow down as soon as they saw the lights, I didn't see them accelerating away after being lit up. They did acceleratefrom the stop (they obviously didn't know a cop was behind them), and the cop had not turned on lights or siren at that time.

The defense lawyer also tried to make the point that he didn't put his hands up, but if I got caught doing something stupid, and pulled over within a few seconds, I would not put my hands in the air.

That is an idiotic thing to say. Fortunately for you there are men and women willing to put themselves in harms way to protect people like you. You were not there and all we see is what the camera saw for that snap shot in time. Horrible mistake, maybe. There are so many unknowns. I do know and believe this. If we ever have our right to have guns taken away so people like you feel safe, only the really bad guys and the government will have them. No one will be safe then. Sometimes people make the wrong decision in a critical moment. Sometimes.
As for sgoodwins experience. You need to move. Obviously you live in a very high crime area. They do not quadruple law enforcement to write traffic tickets. And that was your version of what happened. I am sure more went on and was probably said than what you posted.

I've been stopped plenty while carrying, even once by the U.S. Border Patrol who could clearly see the .45 in my center console, and I also occasionally open carry on the bike. Only one time has a cop even asked to see my permit. I've never run into one who had a problem with my carrying.

Turboflyer, the increase was originally because of gang violence. However they have used that increase to patrol the general population instead. Traffic stops & motor vehicle violations have increased at an insane rate here as they have discovered the monetary benefits of increased harrassment of the populace. Everything ends up in court with the almighty dollar taking the place of justice. As far as my encounter, no more was said & done than my short synopsis of an 1 1/2 hour encounter. My thoughts were that the officer was a nooby & didn't really know how to handle what I thought should not be any more than a parking offense even though there was nothing stating we couldn't be there. As I said we had stopped there many times before without incident. We are at war with our own police & you are guilty until proven innocent.

I knew the first, the second was new to me. Thanx for the upgrade. SmileWavy

Always remember that a cop is a public employe with a gun.

Protect me from what exactly? If you think that Police are not likely to behave differentially in a jurisdiction where hand guns can be legally carried or are likely to be carried you are deluding yourself. I know if I were a Police officer and my life was on the line I would be a bit flinchy to say the least.

I am very pleased I don’t live in fear and feel the need to carry a gun, and the knowledge that people in the street are not armed with hand guns is also very reassuring.
Other than in a Police officers or security guards holster the only time I have ever seen a hand gun in the last 50 years was when I was using one at a pistol range. I have more chance of winning the lottery than having a gun pointed at me or my family.

Owen, any legally licensed to carry individual has had to jump through hoops, been background checked & certified to be an upstanding citizen. Only .1 % of legally carrying people are involved in any illegal activity & those numbers don't differentiate between being convicted or exonerated of any crime. If you want to fear someone fear the criminals with guns & the out of control officers who seem to shoot first & ask questions after. This is the difference between subject & citizen. You obviously bought all the lies and are a subject of your govenment. I feel pity for those who fall into this stupidity, only you care enough to protect yourself or family. Anywhere that people have been disarmed has had an increase in violent crime, check it out if you don't believe me. When I had my daughter the realization that only I am responsible for her safety hit me, no cop or anyone else is to be relied on to accept this responsibility, nor are they required to. When the s h i t hits the fan it's all up to you.

I'll subscribe. Compared to the US we have very few firearms in germany.
That's one of the reasons why you can make your way home from a Biergarten in the dark by foot or on a bicycle and the only fear is to miss a turn on a forest path and fall down- in Germany.

One slight difference in my vita: cut the pistol range and set "Bundeswehr", (also cut the 50 years and set 40)
I've seen what firearms can do, I've used them (up to the 20mm Rheinmetall machine canon) in military training, so I'm glad that there are not many firearms here in Germany.

More firearms simply lead to more trouble and more sorrow, including over-nervous policemen who become way too fast with pulling the trigger.
Firearms are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

As a born Brit I agree with you, but here in America there is a huge emotional attachment to the freedom to own, and carry guns. This no doubt greatly increases the fear that caused the idiot in the first post use his.

More guns certainly means more fear that everyone else has one, and is about to use it on you. They should not let either the fearful or the trigger happy become law enforcement officers.

Very well said, I would add that fear contributes to even good law abiding people making errors of judgment under stressful situations especially when their lives are at stake, its just human nature. When firearms are involved the consequences of those errors are obviously very serious. Just saying the Police officer did the wrong thing and broke the law without considering what contributed to his actions is putting your head in the sand and ignoring the obvious.
Guns and fear are a bad combination and one begets the other.

That may well be but when you consider how many people legally carry in the US that’s still a big problem.
It’s much easier to apprehend those illegally carrying hand guns when know one is allowed to carry and an instant jail sentence for carrying is certainly a deterrent.


I would much rather not live in fear and we don’t here, getting shot is not something we are concerned about and violent crime rates are very low.


Anyone here without a criminal record can own a firearm or several if they wish, but what we cannot do is carry handguns in public. The carrying of knives or other potentially offensive weapons is also banned and that’s a good thing.
The use of firearms for self defence is not accepted and is not something the vast majority of people would even consider anyway as they don’t live in fear.


That is certainly not the case here.
More people are killed buy hand guns alone in the US in one day than all firearms related deaths in a full year here.


If I were worried about the need to protect my family with a gun I would pack up and move somewhere safer.

The same can be said of Switzerland, where almost every household has a military issued gun.

Our problem isn't guns, it is society and the degradation of values and responsibility to teach our children properly.

Owen, I am guessing that there aren't (for example) smugglers coming up from new zealand with bales of dope. We have a violent crime problem regardless of whether my neighbor has a gun in his car or not.

Im guessing if the made all these drugs illegal, all the problems would go away.... oh, wait....

With all due respect, there are men and women that protect and serve, but very few of them. I personally know 8 sworn police officers, and Ill have to admit that im glad that they are on my side, only one of them I would call a good guy, the other 7 have told me storys that make me not want to get stopped in certain areas.

Ive been pulled over and my girlfriend at the time needed to use the restroom, I got pulled over for a damn lic plate light and she damn near had to go the the hospital after waiting for 1 hour.

Im so fed up with getting pulled over for 4mph over that anymore I hit the light kill, swing my foot back to bend plate in and lean into the throttle. Crown vics stop at 110, chargers wipe out on country roads, and the new toyota camrys just fade in the distance.

Interesting statement.

Always thought the swiss have their guns closed away in safes and most of them only like to polish them instead of making them filthy by firing them. :D

Reading your second phrase, I'd say that degradation of society, values, responsibility and a sense of belonging together plus a consistently drop in proper education is THE big problem.

That problem may be bigger in the U.S. than in Germany, but we have the same problem, also. And we have a saying that all U.S. problems come to us about 10 years later.......

Guns are another problem. The big education-and-society-problem doesn't wipe out the gun-problem. I think the education-and-society problem becomes more severe thru guns.

Do you carry those military issued guns with you at all times or are they locked up at home?

Would it bother you if a large proportion of the population carried a hand gun day to day?

The degradation of society and its values is a separate issue but one that also needs addressing, the gun issue is only one problem but one that can be address if there is a will.

Even if there was a will and willingness of most gun owners to surrender their arms we would still have a problem. Trying to gather them all up would be like trying to gather all that oil floating around the Gulf of Mexico and stuffing it back in the ground.

Although to the rest of the world, the US has a lot of gun violence, it really is isolated and not a fear for 99% of the population.

I am between two fairly large cities in Upstate NY, and there is a LOT of killings in both cities, but it is mostly drug trade stuff, dealers killing other dealers. Both cities are on the interstate and that is a pipeline for drugs from Canada to NY city. And if they did not have guns, it would be knives, or bats. Again the societal problems are the cause, the weapon is just the vehicle, IMHO.

Not at all. In fact, there'd be a tiny fraction of the violent crime that exists today if everyone were always armed. Criminals steer clear of those who are likely to put up armed resistance. Why are there never killing sprees at gun stores, shooting ranges or police stations? Every single mass killing in this country only happens in "gun free" zones, where the perp knows he will not be stopped until he runs out of bullets or the police arrive 30 minutes later.

On a lighter note humor Austraiian style.......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some jokes from AUS - Warning, some might be offensive.
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Been sent some jokes.

WARNING! May contain offensive topics and racial undertones...


• I’m living next door to an aboriginal couple at the moment. They have 3 little kids and they’ve challenged me to a water fight in the back yard, so I’m just writing to you while the kettle boils!

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• Husband says to his wife “do you fancy playing a rape game?” Wife says “no”. Husband replies “that’s the spirit!”

• There’s a new anti-depressant for lesbians on the market: Trycoxagain.

• I failed my biology exam today. I was asked to name 2 things commonly found in cells. Apparently, aboriginals and Lebanese rapists is not the correct answer

Why can't we agree to severally limit handguns?
I want a machine gun. I want a bazooka. I want a tank to drive down main street during rush hour. I think most reasonable people will agree that some gun control is okay. Once we get past the fear that government is going to take all our guns, we might be able to reasonably agree that handguns serve no useful purpose except to kill someone. I know some people hunt with them, but then what if I want to fish with dynamite?