Considering a '99 R11S - what to know?

flywheel · 08-18-2010, 04:42 PM

Hi Folks,

Checking for the first time here, so hi all.

I've been searching to replace my Honda Superhawk with some fresher (less mileage) and more compatible for distance two-up riding. Mostly I've been looking at FZ1s and Triumph Tigers (I know, not comparable, but two bikes I've come to like), but I came across a '99 R11S at a good price and low mileage so it's in the mix.

What should look out for in a R11S? Any clutch problems? Final drive problems?

Will the ergonomics be about the same as my Superhawk, or are they more comfortable for multiple long-distance days? Better passenger accommodations than a VTR, or an FZ1, or about the same?

BTW, I know that there's loads of difference between an I-4 and the Boxer, between chain and shaft drive. Maybe the telelever front end is better for both driver and passenger on a long haul?

Anyway, any advice/insight you can provide would be much appreciated, especially from those who have experience with V-twins and I-4s.

Thanks!

AntonLargiader · 08-18-2010, 05:31 PM

No experience with I4s, sorry.

A year or two ago I was doing a lot of R11S work and started a list of the changes by model year. There were a lot. That said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a 1999. Sweet bike, and I think for a passenger especially the chassis trickery is going to be good. Dunno about comfort but the stability will be appreciated.

But you should just ride it. Most BMW dealers and owners are pretty open to that.

OTOH if you're casting a wider net, there are other Beemers that are great for 2-up and still very sporty. Any of the GSes, the RS, etc.

markjenn · 06:31 PM

I owned a 99 for nearly a decade and 50K+ miles. It was one of my all-time favorite bikes, so you won't hear a lot of disparaging comments about it from me.

But........

It appears from your post that your main reason for wanting to change from your Superhawk is comfort/ergos, suitability for touring, and better passenger accomdations. While you may improve somewhat in some aspects here (e.g., while the range of the S is not great, it is better than the VTR), the step will not be large and in some ways (e.g., engine smoothness), you'll actually regress. With the S, you're basically getting a BMW interpretation of the same basic type of bike. So while it will be different, it won't be dramatically better. I know you're going to say "too big", but where you make the big step up in comfort and two-up capability is with bikes like FJR's. If you're going to stop short of this, then you may be better off keeping your VTR.

The other aspect of this to be aware is that while these bikes are basically reliable, they have complex systems and there have been some spectacular failures with a fair number of bikes as the miles build. Final drive issues, clutch spline stripping, throttle body wear problems, fuel pump failures, ignition wiring sensor problems, subframe tab breakage, ABS pump failures, tranny blowups, and other system issues do lurk with boxer twin ownership. If a bike is clean and unwrecked, you're not likely to have problems, but I'd certainly rate a R1100S as a much bigger risk than say a FZ1 which is pretty much stone-ax reliable. The basic way to look at it is that although you may only be paying $5K for a bike, you're maintaining a $15K bike with very complex systems. And BMW dealers like to charge some pretty high prices for stuff that is outside most owner's abilities, sometimes ridiculously so. Being a good mechanic or having a good independent mechanic is a huge plus.

Another issue is that boxers wreck poorly. With a lot of bikes, you can throw them down the road and only have some rashed plastic, but when an S goes down at speed, it pretzels the front subframe, sometimes breaks frame tabs, and can cause big engine damage.

On some of your specific points, the telelever is a better rough-road fork and gives the chassis great stability, especially if you're mixing in some braking inputs. But some complain that it lacks precision and feel. I wouldn't say it is any more comfortable or better for a passenger. It's just different. Just like the bike.

On a coldly rational basis, I think an FZ1 (or perhaps a VFR?) would be a better bike for what you want to do. An FJR even better. All that being said, the S is a wonderful machine if you gell with it. I'd really try and get an extended test ride to see if you like it. They're charismatic as hell and the first time I rode one (after I had rented a GS for a week and gotten used to boxers and telelevers in general), I knew it was a bike I wanted to spend a lot of time on. But some absolutely hate them. If you wade in, just make sure your eyes are open.

- Mark

wswartzwel · 08-18-2010, 07:17 PM

I had a Superhawk before I got my R1100S.... I find the R1100S to provide much more wind protection than the honda, and with a Sargent seat all day riding comfort for 600-700 mile days. The Superhawk wheelies a bit better.... and I do miss the sound of the Vtwin engine from the high pipes I had on mine...
I now have 50,000 miles on my R1100S though... It is the most intoxicating bike to ride I have ever owned.... The combination of the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, and the Flywheel being sideways, creates a neutral feeling bike that is just so much fun to ride on curvy roads.

DanielK · 08-19-2010, 05:44 AM

Ditto - love my s

flatbutt · 08-19-2010, 09:20 AM

60k on mine. No major breakdowns, never been stranded but we had to do a pre-emptive repair on the t ranny shaft as I had all of the telltales of impending disaster.

flywheel · 08-20-2010, 06:29 AM

Thanks for the responses, guys. For some reason I didn't email notification so I'm just not gettng back to you.

Markjenn .... you are certainly frank and it's much appreciated, refreshing in fact. Though with all the potential problems you note one could get the impression that you don't care much for the bikes.

And really good to hear from a prior VTR owner. It would be great to get an 'extended ride' on an R11, but they're hard to come by and sellers are increasingly reluctant to let buyers take a spin.

I find myself caught in a dilemma that may be due my middle-aged age .... I want/need more comfort in riding, but I hate to give up the sporty side of things, one of them being looks. And the R1100RS (and its descendants) is a cool looking bike.

To be frank myself, I've only ridden BMWs a few times and I've had trouble getting over the tilting due to the motor - I haven't heard it described as adding to the neutrality of the bike.

Now I've come across an R1100RS, so I'm still hunting about. I hope to check out an FZ1, an R11S, and possibly an R11RS this weekend. I'll probably only get one of them in.

Thanks again.

wswartzwel · 08-20-2010, 06:37 AM

If you are near Arkansas you are welcome to take mine for a spin. The engine torque when stopped at a intersection, felt really weird when I first got mine... After a few hundred miles of riding it went away... psychological I guess. I rode Japanese bikes for 30 years.... They have the personality of a pocket calculator... I never knew what I was missing.

Steve Carlton · 08-20-2010, 07:42 AM

I'm not sure what price you found on the '99, but from what I've seen it doesn't take much more to get a newer one. I'd suggest an '04-05 as they're more sorted and have the twin-spark motor. The failures markjenn mentions certainly are a risk and the extra money spent on a newer one will reduce that greatly.

I've had a couple of Superhawks briefly, and I consider it one of my favorite bikes, especially for the money. There's a LOT more weight on your wrists with those and all day comfort is not on the radar there. The R1100S comes with bars mounted below and above the triple clamp and you can switch them around. For two riders, I wouldn't put the R1100S near the top of the list comfort-wise. Tigers are awesome bikes as far as I'm concern, and total sleepers. They would probably serve your purpose better. Get at least a 1050 would be my recommendation.

There is something really special about the boxer twins, and they have a very intoxicating feel and personality. There's a special bond there to be had and I don't think the Japanese four cylinder bikes can approach that.

flywheel · 08-20-2010, 08:05 AM

Thanks for the offer, wswarztel (sp?

If I do get to check one out this weekend, how do I inspect for worn pivot bearings/bushings? I've read that this is a common problem with the drive shaft and telelever pivots.

The '99 R11S I've found has 8K on it and is selling for $5000. The R11RS has 24K and selling for $3500. Seems like good prices to me ... too cheap to be in decent shape? The S has a Corgin seat, carbon valve covers, and a decent custom paint job, though that may indicate a prior drop, or it might no look so good in person.

Steve Carlton · 08-20-2010, 08:32 AM

I think the paint job is a big red flag. Probably will hurt the value, and I've seen these going for $4K and up lately (although with more miles). Seems like a good price on the RS if it's in good shape and has had its fluids changed along the way. The RS is a better 2-up bike, although it's not as sexy as the S.

flywheel · 08-20-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

The RS is a better 2-up bike, although it's not as sexy as the S.

I hear ya.

markjenn · 08-20-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flywheel

Markjenn .... you are certainly frank and it's much appreciated, refreshing in fact. Though with all the potential problems you note one could get the impression that you don't care much for the bikes.

In 50K, I had three or four problems with mine; non major, but some were odd things I would never expect to have problems with on a Japanese bike and required some research to figure out cost-effective ways to fix - if I had just walked into the dealer and said "fix it", it might have cost me a lot more. When I sold it, the front tranny seal had a small leak which would require tearing down the entire back of the bike to fix - it hadn't caused any clutch issues, but it is certainly a looming risk to the next owner. (I told him about it and discounted accordingly.)

And the bike was kinda quirky - many of the issues have been discussed in this forum.

Quote:

To be frank myself, I've only ridden BMWs a few times and I've had trouble getting over the tilting due to the motor - I haven't heard it described as adding to the neutrality of the bike.

If you're talking about the little tilt to the side it makes when you rev the bike at a standstill, this is a complete non-issue in riding. It's odd when you first feel it, but you completely forget about it within a ride or two. The S isn't really a bike to be sitting around blipping the throttle anyway.

Someone made a suggestion to get a later model one with low miles. I agree with this. The price increases in S models as you get later is relatively "flat" and makes the later models better values. I'd look for a twin-sparker. Unfortunately, sales declined with each successive year, so early models are much more common.

- Mark

motoyoyo · 08-20-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

The RS is a better 2-up bike, although it's not as sexy as the S.

Yeah, kind of like a Gazelle vs a Sloth...IMO

flywheel · 08-20-2010, 10:53 AM

Actually, all of those look nice, motoyoyo. Is that a Sargent seat on the S?

Any tips about checking out the condition of the motor (tranny seals and whatnot) and pivot points would be appreciated.

jduke · 08-20-2010, 11:21 AM

Easy to check the final drive.
Put the bike on the center stand so the rear wheel is off the ground.
Looking at the wheel like a clock, from the left side of the bike grab the tire at 3 and 9 and see if you can feel any movement. Any, period. Then grab it at 12 and 6. You don't want any movement.
If you feel movement it could be swingarm, pivot bearings, or final drive bearings. As long as no damage has been done, they can be repaired, but any movement would cause me to walk away unless you know what is wrong and what is involved in fixing it.

jduke · 08-20-2010, 11:25 AM

The best way to check the engine would be to do a leak down test.

motoyoyo · 08-20-2010, 11:34 AM

If you like the looks of the RS then it would be a fine bike. The handling is decent other than the slightly loose feel of the rubber mounted handlebars. Two of my riding buddies have them and like them a lot. Yes, that's a Sargent seat on my R1100S. Quite a bit more comfortable all around.

Like others have said, the RS would be a lot better for a passenger though. It has a lower and softer back seat as well as nice grab handles behind the seat. I know first hand because my buddy had to give me a lift home when my bike's hall sensor puked and left me stranded. BTW, that failure is not that common and is just as likely among all the BMW models.

There are not a lot of ways to tell if a bike is going to give you trouble down the road. You can check for signs of rear pivot bearing or final drive loosness by grabbing the wheel and shaking it while the bike is on the center stand. There should be no percievable loosness in any direction, if all is good.

Take the bike for a ride and observe any unusual noises or smells. Of course a BMW always has different noises than most other bikes, but it should still feel very stable without any grinding or rythmic noices. Well...I take that back...maybe a little surging at around 4-4500 rpm if the tuning is not perfect.

My bike has 70k miles on it now without any major mechanical problems so far (knock on wood desk). I did replace my pivot bearings at 35k which is about average, but they are still in very good shape now. Overall it is a very fun and enjoyable bike, especially if you are inclinded to do your own work maintaining it. Very easy to work on.

Steve Carlton · 08-20-2010, 11:37 AM

The RS kind of reminds me of the snake monster in Dreamscape. Still, I think they look pretty cool.

shreddr · shreddr's Garage

I will throw a wrench in the works. The R1200S engine is the cream of the crop, but 2-up on that bike, fuggeddaboutit! I suggest finding a used unit of the phenomenally unsuccessful, but all around excellent R1200ST, you get the rocking R1200 motor, with some decent touring capability. Many here absolutely hate the styling, but once you ride the R1200 motor, any thoughts about an R1100 will vanish.