Need help: Front End Tweaked?
 

I just had my 6000 mile service done today at Eurocycles of Tampa. They are the local BMW dealership and I had them do the work so there is no questions if a warranty issue comes up + I don't have the time.

I told them that I had gone down, described in detail the scenario and that now the front end "feels" tweaked. I can tell that the left handlebar is lower than the right and it is visibly ( to me ) off on the front.

They took a look at it, told me they realigned the front a little but it was absolutely fine and nothing is wrong with it. It tracks straight handles well and was verified by the senior mechanic and the service manager on separate rides. I sat on it and could still tell something was still amiss so I approached the service manager again and tried re-explained my concerns. We agreed I would ride it for a little and if I still felt it was out to bring it back.

What concerns me is that

1. They obviously didn't do any measurements

2. They can't tell by riding it that something is off. I brought it back to work and had other people sit on it and asked a non-leading question... "how does the handlebar distance feel?" All of them agreed that either the right one is high or the left is low.

3. I explained where I thought the problem might be and they either don't want to do the job

4. Or can't do a thorough job

5. Or they think that it really is ok.

Any of those throw up red flags.

All I really needed from them is a thorough check on the issue and an estimate and I feel that they, for whatever reason, aren't up to the task. Miserably.

I'm considering taking it 60 miles south to another (more reputable place) in Sarasota but I'm wondering if it will be even worth it as I expect the same attitude/ineptness from any dealer.

I'm looking for some advice from those in the know, on a reasonable path to take or something less obvious that I might be missing but I am 95% sure I know where and what the problem is.


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I also went into detail about the frame that attaches to the triple clamp. I told them to check it because I believe it is bent. I got the response "...oh, that's a lot of work to get to that... ...this is the first one of these bikes we have ever dealt with..." Really makes me feel confident :rolleyes:

I'm at the point where I'm thinking just going to do this myself because, again, another situation reinforcing all of my other bad experiences with dealers/dealer mechanics in general.

This also confirms that I'm crazy. A sane person does not keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

I'm wondering if I should even bother with these people again or gather my resources, confirm the issue and tackle the job myself. Which leads me to my next question...

Those of you that have dug this deeply or have done the job: What are difficult areas and what should I look out for? Unseen consequences? Cans of worms? If I do this it will be my first major surgery on this bike but am a decent amateur mechanic.

Is there something else I should check too before I go headfirst into an expensive repair that may be completely unwarranted?

Bike tracks perfectly as I can tell ( tested 115+ ). Would that be the case if, what I am theorizing the problem to be, true?

I am going to fix this one way or another and any useful input from you guys will hopefully expedite the process.

Thanks in advance and enjoy your weekend...

If you automatically expect that, then you should do it yourself. It's darn hard without the right tools, and a lot of practice, to determine straightness. And not as many factory jigs for that anymore. That's why few shops do it. Sounds like your shop is not up to the task, and that you don't trust shops anyway, so this one may be on you.

In most cases, it's a matter of tweaked bars if it all tracks straight. I'd work hard to rule them out before digging deeper, which as they said, is not straightforward.

Good luck

You seem like you know what to do.
Measurments vs. the dealer method is the key to finding the issue.

I believe GMD Track Time in Atlanta has the computer alignment settings for the R12S from doing work for Nate. They might can help you.

Agreed. That would be the fast and precise way, and is at least not WAY to far away.

... "barking at the wrong tree" scenario I guess!
1- simple seat padding/your ride position
2- rear wheel is going out of line (x2 for feel of it) and it shows when you load bike(x4)

Does anyone have an experience with the one in Ft. Lauderdale area? That's half the distance.

I was going to dig into the triple clamp/handlebars this weekend. I replaced the left one which was bent but a lot less than I was hoping for.

Let me re-phrase that dealer portion to just include the ones in my general area. I know nothing about the others except Pittsburgh (bad experience) Knoxville ( good experience but that was just for a part ) and Atlanta which according to my friend was great.

Most times I go to a dealer for an issue it turns into a bad Threes Company episode. Trying to sell me unneeded equipment or service, unresponsive or rude. Poor technicians or technicians that just got out of tech school it goes on and on. All I want is someone to take my problem seriously and not rush me out the door to get the next shmoe in there. How about not having to make several inconvenient trips to solve a simple issue. I'm not just talking about MC dealers. Most of my problems with them are covered in the VW Mini Van saga... I just want to stroll in and have all my problems magically washed away by throwing money at them. They would say "yes sir no problem we can do that! All your wishes will come true. Do you need a beer?"

Is that too much to ask?

I really am not trying to bash dealers... I'm sure they have to deal with morons all day.



I guess I expect too much... Florida is the land of incompetence.

I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling at Rick's......

Whoa.... you have to explain yourself. I'm a little dense and this will take me hours to decipher.

You're too young.
Rent Casablanca......
Casablanca (1942) - IMDb

one of my older bikes had had "geometry issues"
started with clip-ons (bars); seat (it was slipping of one of the pads- made it worse!; well after all the long- it was missing washer against swing arm... (1mm thick, but had even affected tire wear)
"Barking..."?- see as what else could be to blame- not front geometry first
anw wish you persevere and get to the bottom of it, without entrusting dealers too much

Sounds like your bike is done for. I'll take it off of your hands for $1000. ;)

That didn't take too long SmileWavy

In Knoxville, there is a place called shradder collision repairs and painting. Marc Shradder is the owner and mecanic in the place. He. shiuld be able to handle a problem like this one. I have been very pleased with service and the family like welcome at the place.

That's a little far... but.... I'm willing to take the suspect piece off and send that to him or anyone else... the rub is that it may only be off by a fraction of a degree. Not enough to affect handling too much at all but enough to annoy the **** out of me. Cage had stated to look for crinkled paint but this is such a minute deflection I am not expecting to see anything obvious. I'm guessing it's off by .7 - .85 of a degree if it is the front uh... "frame thing" (what is that called?). It is definitely in the front. Can't be the triple tree because it's aluminum and there are no cracks but I'm going to scour all those pieces anyway.

Do you have his contact info?

I think this is something that some others would let slide. It really is close. The bike is completely rideable but it's driving me nutzzzzzzzzzz.

Will call GMD too and see if they will check a part. From what I read it seems like it would be possible.

Mike, I'm going to ask a simple question. Have you thought about loosening the pinch bolts on the top clamp and seeing if the drop twisted the front sliders a tad? I think the tubes would show some scarring if they had twisted during the drop. See if tubes show evidence of twisting in the area of the 3. I think the top ball-joint would have protected you somewhat from springing the frame at the neck. The bars pushing against the wheel would provide a good twisting moment. It wouldn't take much movement there to affect an appreciable bar end displacement.

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...png?v=03252011

Undoubtedly, one of your tubes got readjusted when you fell off. This is very easy to do as there is minimal torque put on the pinch bolts.

Here is how you readjust.

Put the bike on a stand or lift so it is vertical.

Slightly loosen the top pitch bolt
Slightly loosen the lower pinch bolts

Stand in front of the bike, with the wheel between your legs, and hold it as straight as you can.
Rotate the bar that you think is low out a little – keep moving the bars back and forth to their stops until they are equidistant from the tank, ie both bars should be the same distance from the tank plastics at full lock, which is something like an inch or so.

Tighten.

You may want to do this a couple of times until you are satisfied that everything is straight. There are threads around that describe using string to make certain that the wheels are aligned, but I’ve always been able to get alignment pretty spot-on just by eye.

A lift is preferable to a stand because it will take some weight off of the front wheel. If you don’t have one it’s no big deal; just don’t loosen the pinch bolts too much, and make sure that you push the tubes down if they slide up.
If you don’t have a torque wrench, now is a good time to get one.

May just be a bent handlebar. They bend easily.

Or you may need to pack one saddlebag with lead as a past member here used to promote. :)


Hi AndrewA Hope all is well in your world. SmileWavy

"We agreed I would ride it for a little and if I still felt it was out to bring it back."

The service manager is just covertly providing you a chance to recalibrate to the change. He is banking that it is subtle enough to not be readily quantifiable. If it feels wrong, it is. Went through that on a rebuilt salvage bike. Finally determined fork stanchions were just slightly bent, also replaced the lower fork brace just cause there was something odd there catching my eye but I could not quite see... if that makes any sense. Basically did the front end in my garage without the aid of any special tools, lifts, etc. It lines up perfect now and rides much different. Apparently, it does not take much deviation on a front end alignment to tell your body/brain that something is not square. There was just something weird in the handling and I did not have enough hours on the bike to put my finger on it... but I knew that I felt it. If you're feelin' it, do not let anyone talk you out of it.

my attack plan would be:
buy new bars.
before you install them, loosen every bolt that pinches, from the front axle to the rotor mounting bolts, to triple clamp and inbetween.
loosen everybody up.

put a couple rubber bands around the front brake to help center the pads.
tighten the axle.
snug up the calipers
move upward, including andrew's thing outlined above, until you finish by tightening down the new bars (left and right).

then go see.
really, it's possibly just twisted up and ticked off, but unlike most of us on this board, it can be un-twisted and returned to normal.

use a good torque wrench and follow the manual for correct torque clicks.
(talking about the bike here: using torque wrenches on board members doesn't seem to make them any smarter/better/nicer, though it can be self-satisfying).

Come on Brad, some people are well coated with anti-seize while others here a OD'd on Loctite 242.;) Just remember what non-tech guy started this train of thought.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif

Yes the forks were twisted in pinch points after ward. We loosened the axle on the right, midpoint on the left and triple clamp on the left. I have not loosened the others I haven't mentioned. I already got a new left bar and the old one was slightly bent. I'm going to remove the right and roll that around and see if it's good but that one didn't make any contact. After the spill the wheel was rubbing against the right side of the finder a little and the TClamp and bars were pointing the opposite direction. I'm still figuring 95% probability it is the front subframe and 5% probability of the pinch points needing reset.

The front took a lot of force, focused up and to the rear of the bike. Having the front wheel sideways in that skinny ditch, which twisted the forks, actually probably saved the bike from any severe damage (it didn't skip out sideways).

I got it all cleaned up now and you can't see anything without getting your eye within 3 feet of it and I haven't even tried any magic potions on it yet.

I got a full weekend now... Measuring that BS, Removing the engine on the old bike and hanging out with friends and knocking a few back :)

Oh... It's not a left right (side to side) deviation but a one side (bar) higher than the other... noticeably so on both hands. Like RAndrew said... I can see that its off but can't make it out yet. I'm riding and looking at my VIN # and can see that the shadows and angles are... different. The tupperware and the right bar are coming off and whatever else gets in my way so I can get some strings and rulers in there.

As far as the dealer goes... I just don't think they wanted to do it.

Call GMD and see if GMD Atlanta can send them the electronic file for the R12S. Not sure what relationship between different shops but they might share data.

Thanks... I'm going to save GMD as a last resort. I've got a good idea of what's going on in addition to everyones input on how to proceed. I would think it would be no problem to email a configuration file like that. I'm hoping I won't have to do that.

Anybody know these guys?

Motorcycle Frame Straightening Repair

Yes, fixed my front wheel, very good work.

BikeMiker - you really need to loosen all of the bolts to adjust.

It sounds as thought the top clamp is pushed up on one side. If you think about it, the top clamp just rotates in the ball joint-the only way to get it level is to loosen everything and then push the higher tube down into the fork.

Yes . Going to do that too. Hope its as simple as that. Trust me, tearing this thing down methodically. I don't want to pay out the ass on a hunch.

Hi wswartzwel! I'm living the dream!
Hope all is well with you and yours as well!SmileWavy

If you have access to some other R1200S nearby I'd take some measurements between Front Axle and Handlebar Tips and any of several other points in-between. Assuming the other R1200S has not been dropped a measurement that is more than say 5mm different should tip you off that something is amiss. Maybe measure between Front and Rear Axle as well. In all cases put the bikes on Centerstand if one is present.

Hey guys....

Finally got the lift set up at our communal bike garage and I'm hoping to start this weekend if I can get the time. Had some quick ?'s if you would be so kind...

1. Does anyone have the torque specs for the fork pinch bolts?

2. Anyone know a good place/price for a manual? I've seen some listed here but am hoping someone knows where or can supply a quick link off hand.

Again... appreciate all the input.

I say it looks off even by my level eye while riding and on the sidestand. I think I'm the only person with a 12s in my area. I know a few guys with 11s, GS's and Airheads but I haven't seen another nor have they.

Bueller? Bueller?

Ok... looks like Haynes it is....


BMW R1200 Twins Repair Manual 2004-2009 | Haynes


In the meantime... If someone would be so kind to post those torque spec's I'd appreciate it plenty! SmileWavy