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Go Shred! Totally impressed.
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:07 PM
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I am full of respect for someone taking on a job like this, particularly as a "guinea pig". A question: how much does cooling method (air/oil versus liquid) drive the design of clearances and CR?
Philip
Old 07-08-2012, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pma1010 View Post
I am full of respect for someone taking on a job like this, particularly as a "guinea pig". A question: how much does cooling method (air/oil versus liquid) drive the design of clearances and CR?
Philip
Good question and one I am not totally prepared to answer, as I am following the Germans lead. There are a number of enthusiasts over the pond who are pushing the limits of the R1200 engine design and are getting 30 HP above stock. I assume my mods are within an acceptable range of the design limits of the motor based on the Germans experience.

A more specific answer to your question is that as cooling is more closely controlled tolerances can be tightened to maximize performance. My custom pistons have been given the tolerances recommended by CP-Carrillo for the alloy they are made of, the cooling method of the motor and intended use. Their recommendation was slightly looser than stock based on the fact their proprietary alloy expands more on startup than the stock pistons.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:54 AM
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Is there a way to increase oil flow (more gallons per minute)? If so, that might mean bigger oil radiator.

Philip
Old 07-08-2012, 07:37 AM
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It would also seem that measuring oil temp would be useful too if you've made a meaningful bump in CR.

Look forward to seeing the progress. Good luck with the endeavor.
Philip
Old 07-08-2012, 08:03 AM
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The stars are aligned!

The coated pistons are back!

Here is the right and a wrong one!




when I was buttoning it up last time, as I was fitting the rings I realized one of the dual oil rings was too small, I called Carrillo and told them so they sent me a new pack, when I opened it today to mount them up, here's what I found


it was the same mixed bag!

luckily I had another correct one from the previous pack, so I am good to go. It's not good when you catch a screw up and inform the company and they give you the same screw up a second time.

stay tuned brothers the build is at hand!
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:09 PM
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Hey Jeff -

How much are you intending to raise the compression ratio? Do you still have the OEM pistons? I would like to see the new CP pistons compared to the factory HP2 pistons.

The wrist pin bore appears to just clear the bottom of the oil ring land. Seems like you have reached the physical limit of rod length and piston height.
Old 07-13-2012, 04:36 PM
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The compression will go from 12.5:1, to 12.8:1

Not a big boost but the pistons are lighter than stock and they are BIGGER
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:54 PM
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and away we go!

A brief pictorial

left hand cylinder in place, the process is the same as before only using the correct piston this looks better!


proper head gasket and torque method. I gotta say that 150 degrees (75 +75) after 20 nm is fricking TIGHT! theres a lot of ponies to keep in check so I guess its warranted!




left cylinder and head on and torqued, right side gets the same treatment


left and right cam boxes next.



the left side with all the guards and guides in place


i have skipped a lot of steps, its not rocket science. getting the clips into the pistons is a bit of a struggle, you also need to make sure you get the rings oriented correctly, and install the pistons through the top of the bore with a ring compressor although I think you could manage without it.

next up timing!
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:34 PM
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so I have a question regarding timing that maybe someone knows the answer. I have the manual and it gives instructions from replacing the crankshaft up, meaning you start with a bare set of cases and build a motor, and all the instructions are as if this is the case, but its not.

I took it apart at right TDC and firing which looks like the cams on the right here (left cylinder) with the notches facing each other:


the instructions for rebuild say to set the left cylinder at TDC line up the cams and tighten the sprocket bolts and then go to the right after rotating it through 2 revolutions so the right is at TDC and firing.

my question is whether this is necessary, in other words how does the bike know which cylinder is firing, is it the sensor on the lower right cam gear, or something else? I am afraid if it put it back together following the manual I will be off firing phase by 2 revolutions, which obviously isnt good. The other fly in the ointment is that the cam tool only fits when the cam notches are facing each other, and now with my left cylinder at TDC and exhaust, I will have to do the best I can at getting them aligned, rotate through until the right side is at TDC and firing, tighten that up and then rotate through 2 more cycles and do the left at TDC firing. I did paint code the sprockets to the cam chains so I should know if I get it right.

Any thoughts from the techs out there?
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Last edited by shreddr; 07-14-2012 at 05:32 PM..
Old 07-14-2012, 04:48 PM
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Shreddr;

Without the heads on, pistons/rods at their outward travel, you are at TDC. You can start with either side to install the heads/cams.
The boxer engine wastes a spark...........both cylinders have a spark when one is on compression/power stroke. So the quick answer is.........the bike does not know.

I think the toughest thing for you to do is to keep the cam chain on the second side from jamming up as you rotate the engine 720 degrees.
Maybe it will be best to get someone to help..........one person to rotate the motor and the other to guide the cam chain.

It seems odd that the cam alignment tool only fits when the notches are facing each other? You would think the easy way would be align them with the reference marks as per the picture..........one side facing each other.........the other side away from each other??

Sometimes it is harder to explain than actually do the job..............and I am onto my second graveyard shift so my mind is mush............I hope what I have written is coming across correctly...............or you can bring the bike over and we will have it done in a jiffy!

Cheers
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Last edited by Droptarotter; 07-15-2012 at 03:33 AM..
Old 07-15-2012, 03:28 AM
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Bryan, your answer makes perfect sense and is exactly what I was looking for, you have simplified my timing job immensely. as for the loose cam chain, i get my daughter to put s little tension on it while I rotate the back tire, cheers!
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:08 PM
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Although I loved your answer Bryan, as I looked through the service CD there clearly is an orientation of crank and cam drive sprockets that is for right cylinder firing at TDC

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Old 07-16-2012, 09:56 AM
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Yes, and then you still need to time the cams to that shaft.

Those marks would probably be to time the balancer.

I also made a huge mistake with my math.......if you turn the crank 720 degrees like I stated, you will be back to timing the cylinder that you started on.
I should have said turn the crank 360 degrees to time the other camshaft.

I told you my brain was mush while working graveyard shift!

I am sure you will work it out. I have very much faith in your mechanical abilities! More than mine at times!

Cheers
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:19 PM
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I am actually a little stuck, i can't get an answer as to whether I can start at TDC and set left firing then right, or if I have to be at a specific crank/cam gearing orientation.

calls to local dealers to talk to a tech were fruitless
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:56 AM
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Yes. My RDC says the same thing. Setting engine to TDC. Engage in highest gear and turn the rear wheel until the left is at firing TDC.
The marks (arrows) of the left camshafts are pointing toward each other.
The left piston is at firing TDC.
Install locating pin 11 2 650. Through trans, clutch carrier etc.

Curious to know if you have tool # 11 1 512 for adjusting timing chain tensioner?

720 degrees crank turn = 1 turn of cam sprocket.
Old 07-21-2012, 08:49 AM
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thanks tjs, i do have the tool.

according to Joe at CCBMW if you are starting with the cam boxes off and at TDC you can proceed following the manual. which is what I am going to try.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:02 AM
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The rebuild is done!

After getting the go ahead from Joe at CCBMW, I just followed the service manual instructions.

here is my "extra hand" i used to keep tension on the cam chains while I rotated the top end to TDC



here is the cam alignment tool that you mount up when the cam marks face each other.


here is the tensioning tool for the cam chain. I am unclear as to why you cant just use the actual tensioner, the only difference I can tell is that this is not spring loaded, so you dial in the tension and it stays there.



after you do one side you rotate through 1 full crank rotation and do the other side.
both sides aligned and timed.



all valve clearance was within spec.


this little rubber piece just sits in the bottom of the cam box, i am not sure what its for either sound deadening, or to keep oil from pooling in the valve cover.
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Last edited by shreddr; 07-21-2012 at 05:39 PM..
Old 07-21-2012, 05:33 PM
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replace the valve covers, run the wiring and here you are!



unfortunately after sitting for 3 months the battery is stone dead, and I need to load the big bore Rexxer map as well, so the big start up will have to wait until tomorrow! stay tuned

rock on brothers!
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:43 PM
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cool stuff Shred. What do you use the bicycle tire tool for?
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:35 PM
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