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Phil Y's Avatar
 
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Cam Sprocket Bolt Removal

Looking for suggestions on how to remove a cam sprocket bolt from an 04 R11S which I bunged up. I messed up the hex hole and now I'm up a creek. Std hex socket head. Should I use heat? How much? Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:24 PM
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Phil, post a high res photo of the current bolt to show the mechanics what they are dealing with. Were you using a 12 pt socket? They have gotten me into trouble before, so I got some 6 pt sockets. This may get you out of the pickle.



http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial-394001-Bolt-Grip-Extractor/dp/B0000CCXVZ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341626690&sr=8-1&keywords=bolt+out

Last edited by Guest24; 07-06-2012 at 06:23 PM..
Old 07-06-2012, 05:56 PM
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Since it is a SHCS maybe you can ty to use an fractional allen wrench, depends how much it is stripped or you can grind a slightly larger allan wrench down so it fits.

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Old 07-06-2012, 06:48 PM
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find a tool that fits the bolt and use a 1/2 inch air gun to remove the bolt instead of putting the tool on a ratchet.
If the tool fits tight the bolt should spin right out
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:30 PM
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Almost ashamed to post this but here's as good a photo as I could do:



Nail: think those types of wrenches would work on a completely round bolt head?
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:16 PM
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That sucks man! Guess you are trying to install Lennies Sprockets. I've heard the cam bolt breaks loose with an eerie crack during removal.

Best of luck getting the bolt removed.
Old 07-06-2012, 08:35 PM
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Im not a fan of eazy outs but one might work on that. Get the right size so it wont bottom out and cut it so you can weld a socket onto it and hammer it into the bolt, use a ratchet to try and get it out. Dont use a shifter on the full length ezy out as you havnt got much control over it.

Good luck

Thanx
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:54 PM
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I would avoid anything that produces medal shavings such as grinding a grove or filing as a first resort.

I would clean the buggered up hole out with brake cleaner or something to remove the oil. Then, I would take a hex driver that fits as tightly and deeply as you have and JB Weld it into the freshly cleaned socket head. Let it sit overnight, and try to take it out the next day.

If that does not work, then I would try an extraction tool that would grip the outside of the bolt head, instead of the hole that the hex driver fits in.

Good luck.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:55 PM
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Well, the easiest way is to order the replacement bolt and carry it with you to a reputable machine shop along with the bike and let them remove and replace the bolt. The bike will run in this condition if you close it up. This is a 4 whench operation for the normal shadetree mechanic. I'd do it this way rather than taking the chance on goobering things up. The way this is configured, bolting into the camshaft, I don't think heat will help. Whatever you use will have to allow the application of enough torque to break the bolt loose.

Were you installing Lennies sprockets?

You might be able to wedge in a slightly larger case hardened torque socket to allow you to break the bolt loose. But, that is hit or miss and you'll only get one shot at it.

The rounded bolt remover would be next. I have used a cold chisle tapping in the out direction to remove bolts with success.

But, the first option is your best if you haven't done any of this before.

Last edited by Guest24; 07-07-2012 at 05:19 AM..
Old 07-07-2012, 05:16 AM
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I would try what Nail suggested. Harbor Freight has a set for 19.95. tjs
Old 07-07-2012, 06:28 AM
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Now this is a real project, where everything goes sh it & defies the best efforts of man. I'd put a set of vise grips on that sucker & torque it loose with a big adjustable wrench and don't even consider this done til you bleed on it .

Last edited by sgoodwin; 07-07-2012 at 07:03 AM..
Old 07-07-2012, 07:01 AM
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I've put in several sets of Lennie's sprockets and never had a problem. It looks like you used the wrong allen head socket. I spent the money on a genuine BMW tool. FYI, they DO come loose with a bang.
Old 07-07-2012, 07:04 AM
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Those bolts are on tight, and when they finally break loose it is with a loud crack and sounds like something has broken. You appear to have really bunged it up, the best advice has been given, find the next size up (sae?) grind it on a taper and pound it in, then go at it with an air impact driver. Make sure you have the correct TDC pin in place.

Of course you can always button it back up, unless you were installing high end pistons and rods, in which case carry on!
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:09 AM
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Jeff, I just had a wild thought. What if you put the "correct" sized device in the bolt with JB Weld and let it set up. Then put an extension and a pull bar on it?

I totally missed Ron's post on this. He had th idea first.

Last edited by Guest24; 07-07-2012 at 09:14 AM.. Reason: Give Ron credit for thing of JB Weld first.
Old 07-07-2012, 08:17 AM
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Nail;
See post #8......

About the vise grips.........I don't think there is enough room in there for them..........and that bolt is on so tight I think vise grips might just slip anyhow.

A stud remover might work for you if you can get it in there.......they kind of "cam" (he he) onto the offender and tighten up as you try and loosen the bolt. That might colapse the head............so good luck.

I think I would button it up and finish off the riding season. For me, it was a winter project.

Cheers
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:54 AM
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I flat missed Ron's comment. He has a great idea there. I'll give all credit to him. I wonder if anyone has ever tried it successfully.
Old 07-07-2012, 09:13 AM
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just a thought, maybe a Torx bit would fit in there? Find a Torx driver bit for a socket set that's a tight fit, tap it into the rounded out hole and try to shift it that way? I'd imagine that the hex bolt is fried anyhow........

You never know, it might even work.

And I can confirm that they release with a nasty bang. Frit the life out me the first one I did...
Old 07-07-2012, 09:16 AM
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Only joking on the vise grips, gotta be pretty desperate to have to resort to them, not that I haven't done it ever.
Old 07-07-2012, 11:09 AM
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Phil -

If you have not managed to resolve the situation yet I have another idea. The problem most likely originated because the tool was forced out of the fastener and permitted the bolt material to smear.

I have a hand tool that serves as an impact driver for removing the often times corroded fastener that retains the rotor on an automotive hub. Not sure how much axial load the camshaft assembly can take without being compromised, but if you were to fasten an allen bit into the buggered bolt and give the torque impact drive tool a good whack it would definitely spin that fastener loose.

FYI - I was working on an ex-girlfriends Honda one time and after rounding two of the four countersunk rotor screws that fastened the rotors to her hubs I visited Napa and purchased the impact tool. I wasn't concerned about getting metal shavings inside a crankcase so I used a dremel tool to cut a small groove for the standard screwdriver bit. After a light blow of the rubber mallet both screws easily backed out.

Consult someone before trying this because I would hate for you to damage your valve train by hammering too hard against the cam sprocket bolt.
Old 07-07-2012, 11:33 AM
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The allen-head bolt is attached at 48 ft-lbs of torque, and there's only a tiny tab holding the sprocket in place, maybe 1/16" thick. You bollocks that up, and it's tear-down time. JB Weld won't take that kind of pressure, and then you have a bunch of it in your crankcase. Just a thought.
Old 07-07-2012, 11:43 AM
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