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Reliability

May sound strange but i am treating my newly acquired r12s with kid gloves mainly because i have spent 10 years riding hondas with no issues can i just go for it or will it disintegrate?Seems beautifully built but so different from anything i have ever owned.Great mpg outstanding in fact.Oil in paralever changed throttles synced to stop the lag all is good except that lingering doubt.
Old 07-31-2012, 11:14 PM
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Just have fun with it, it can take it, don't worry.

Clutch will wear eventually, you might see a final drive failure but its repairable, the engine itself is an indestructible workhorse. If you keep up with maintenance, the bike will stay with you for any good approximation of forever.
Old 07-31-2012, 11:51 PM
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I have used my R1100S as hard as anybody, 50+ track days, and as much of my riding in the twisty stuff, running 4-8K rpm's 2nd and 3rd gear stuff, as I can get, almost no highway miles. I am a trailer queen, I would much rather save tires and energy for the fun stuff. Love to ride, just hate to travel on 2 wheels.

51,000 miles on the clock and no issues what so ever.

Ride it like you stole it, that is what they are made for.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:48 AM
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I understand your trepidation. BMW's are problem-prone. It is not a reliable brand. They're great when they're running, though.

If you have it, use it. There's no use in fretting about it. Maybe you will be a lucky one and not have any trouble.

I've had many BMW's and currently own 4. I've had my share of BMW break-downs but, so far, the 1200S has not given me any trouble.
I really enjoy riding it.
Old 08-01-2012, 03:16 AM
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The thing about BMWs is this. You either get a good one or a bad one. A good one will last hundreds of thousands of miles, literally, with few or no issues. A bad one will cost you multi-thousands of dollars every 30K miles or so. There's no way to tell, and nothing you do will make any difference. So ride it like you stole it and keep your fingers crossed. Good luck.
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:40 AM
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Jim, the ones that are built on Monday, Friday and the workday following holiday are the bad ones. So, you've got a better than 50% chance of getting a good one. My bimmers are the most reliable when they are plugged into the battey tender. And, they seem to really run well just when you are thinking about selling them. A quick check of broken bike post indicates that they break down more often when they are only being ridden to and from work. I think they feel better when they are allowed to play. So, fool you bike by taking off the panniers and that large tank bag and see if its reliability improves. If not, do like PFFOG and take it to the track so it can remember what it was made for.
Old 08-01-2012, 05:46 AM
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I can't think of any major reliability issues with the r1200s (which the OP is discussing). The r1100s had most of the issues people discuss here on the board. But then again, the r1100s was around quite a while so some problems would surface.

As far as the r1200s, the battery may be too small and doesn't last. The key antenna was a recall item on certain vins. Some complained about the rear brake being inadequate. Hadn't even heard of clutch replacements unless someone just wanted to replace the clutch, or more importantly a final drive failure as one poster is implying above...

Overall, most of the r1100s problems were addressed in the r1200s.

One suggestion, if you hang on this board, learn to differentiate the advice you ask for and receive between the two bike models.
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2000 R1100S, 2000 Dyna FXDX, 2015 rNineT. 2016 F800GS, 2016 Jeep Rubicon. 2001 Corvette, 1978 Porsche 928. Schwinn Homegrown MTB & Fastback Road Bike. 22 pairs of shoes. 44 bottles of beer.
Time Marches On: 2015 F800GS, 2010 F800GS, 2007 R1200S, 2003 Dakar, Buell 1125r, 2001 F650GS. 1999 F650. 1998 HD Sportster Sport. 2010 F150, 1995 GMC Sierra ALL GONE

Last edited by ckcarr; 08-01-2012 at 06:31 AM..
Old 08-01-2012, 06:19 AM
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ckarr: the 1200GS has the FD issue (many long tourers have a bearing in their pannier when going to out-of-network places), and it is the same FD (or so I assume?). Clutch will wear at a reasonable mileage. Again, my guess is that most 12S don't see the mileage of 12GS, explaining why pretty much nobody has hit the issue yet, it'll come with miles, just normal maintenance.
Old 08-01-2012, 07:17 AM
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You are trying to make an assumption that is not true.

When there are KNOWN instances then they would be reported.

As far as the clutch, that a ridiculous statement you just made. Like saying brake pads will wear eventually... Or, you will need to change your oil filter.

When YOU own an r1200s then you should comment based on your personal experiences. Through osmosis you are trying to infer that the r1200s has the same issues as a r1100s...
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2000 R1100S, 2000 Dyna FXDX, 2015 rNineT. 2016 F800GS, 2016 Jeep Rubicon. 2001 Corvette, 1978 Porsche 928. Schwinn Homegrown MTB & Fastback Road Bike. 22 pairs of shoes. 44 bottles of beer.
Time Marches On: 2015 F800GS, 2010 F800GS, 2007 R1200S, 2003 Dakar, Buell 1125r, 2001 F650GS. 1999 F650. 1998 HD Sportster Sport. 2010 F150, 1995 GMC Sierra ALL GONE
Old 08-01-2012, 07:22 AM
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R1200S, ride it like you stole it. I love keeping mine above 6K R's up here in the mountains and can't wait to ride it in our new home in the Smokey Mountains with its increase in power at the lower elevation.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeni View Post
ckarr: the 1200GS has the FD issue (many long tourers have a bearing in their pannier when going to out-of-network places), and it is the same FD (or so I assume?). Clutch will wear at a reasonable mileage. Again, my guess is that most 12S don't see the mileage of 12GS, explaining why pretty much nobody has hit the issue yet, it'll come with miles, just normal maintenance.
I don't want to turn this thread into a final drive thread but I must comment that, unfortunately, high mileage is not necessarily linked to the terrible final drive failures. I wish the problem was that predictable. Also, these failures are not exclusively linked to the GS model.

In my local riding group, we once counted a total of 12 BMW owners. 9 of the 12 had experienced final drive failures. Models affected included the LT models, RT models and GS models. One rider was on his fourth final drive at 60k miles (all replaced by dealers, mostly at the rider's expense ) when he finally sold the bike. Lol, he bought another friend's R1200RT and, a few months out of warranty, his ABS pump failed and cost him $2700. He is an remains an avid BMW rider and fanatic and jokes about Harleys having people to follow them to pick up falling parts.

Last edited by leafman60; 08-01-2012 at 08:33 AM..
Old 08-01-2012, 08:31 AM
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That's nice.
But this is a r1100s and r1200s board. Currently and into the foreseeable future. Co-mingling information not related to these bikes screws up this board, unless it is clearly defined as to what bike has been affected.

So point the board to multiple examples of a final drive failure of the r1200s.
Perhaps the bike is lighter, or the problem was solved, or the geometry is different...

Misleading or incorrect information posted today, or in the past will resurface in the future. And some new owner will start believing it.

And by the way, I am not even believing the stories that simply because someone buys an r1200gs, or an RT, that they put any significant miles on them anymore. I've been casually looking, and see plenty of garage queens for sale.
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2000 R1100S, 2000 Dyna FXDX, 2015 rNineT. 2016 F800GS, 2016 Jeep Rubicon. 2001 Corvette, 1978 Porsche 928. Schwinn Homegrown MTB & Fastback Road Bike. 22 pairs of shoes. 44 bottles of beer.
Time Marches On: 2015 F800GS, 2010 F800GS, 2007 R1200S, 2003 Dakar, Buell 1125r, 2001 F650GS. 1999 F650. 1998 HD Sportster Sport. 2010 F150, 1995 GMC Sierra ALL GONE

Last edited by ckcarr; 08-01-2012 at 08:42 AM..
Old 08-01-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Through osmosis you are trying to infer that the r1200s has the same issues as a r1100s...
No I am not. The 11S and 12S are very different machines (and I know I have made that mistake in the past, that infuriated you at the time and I am now more careful thanks to you ). I am comparing with the 12GS, which is a very similar bike, but that has seen a use pattern that reveal a lot more issues with the design (much higher typical mileage).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckcarr View Post
You are trying to make an assumption that is not true.
If you have material to prove that the 12GS and 12S are so different that "osmosis" is impossible to infer possible design issues, let us know. I'd be happy to stand corrected.

Quote:
When YOU own an r1200s then you should comment based on your personal experiences. [...]
When there are KNOWN instances then they would be reported.
That is certainly true, but you have to account for the typical low mileage most 12S are seeing so far. As we shall expect very little first hand experience of high mileage 12S yet (that's coming), can we infer from something else? Hell, I own a 11S and cannot give first hand report of how it behaves into high mileage realm (got 25k so far), and very few actually can, even 13 years after production started. There is value in first hand experience, there is also value in a dataset that is big enough to reach statistical significance and rule out "outlier effect". Tapping into the much larger GS dataset (just for the sheer number of bikes sold) makes sense for the latter.

Quote:
As far as the clutch, that a ridiculous statement you just made. Like saying brake pads will wear eventually... Or, you will need to change your oil filter.
I don't see what's ridiculous with that. Sure its a wear item. But its not like brake pads that you change in 1 hour yourself with $100 parts, and forget about, it costs more in parts and is difficult DIY, so it is interesting to see how long these clutches last, and so far it seems they may last anywhere between 50k-80k. If you are unlucky and get the 50k ones, that is a significant unexpected expense (and here I grant you that inferring from GS that sometime see off-road and have more low torque is not perfectly accurate).


Anyway, the 12S is certainly not a problem bike. The fact that we can list only a handful of possible common issues (even by including faster than expected wear items) is quite amazing, actually. And everybody agrees that most should be expected to last -forever- if properly maintained, whatever the riding style.

Last edited by Meeni; 08-01-2012 at 08:49 AM..
Old 08-01-2012, 08:44 AM
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Thanks for your replies picking through them it seems as though the 1200s is very reliable.I have been to see my local bmw specialist today not dealer but specialist!
He says just change the shaft oil every service and it will be fine.Off for a ride!!!!!!!
Old 08-01-2012, 09:06 AM
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Don't know if the '07 12S and the '08 12RT had the same alloy that the FD seal rested on; but, my 12RT began to leak after 24k miles. BMW replaced it (warranty). BMW changed the hardness of the alloy in later FD's. The 12S bike normally lag in mileage behind the touring bikes, so just maybe we'll start seeing some of the high mileage wear and tear problems.
Old 08-01-2012, 09:38 AM
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the R12S is an ass kicking bike and rock solid reliable even in higher states of tune, like has been recommended ride it like it was meant to be ridden, hard and fast!
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:30 PM
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my sister's neighbor's mailman's gardener overheard a lady while waiting in line at the bank and she said the whole R12S final drive thing was a bunch of wa-hooey.

i, like many of you others, can now consider this issue settled.
Old 08-01-2012, 02:06 PM
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If you worry too much, then the option is to go with Japanese bikes like Honda. You wouldn't question about its reliability. I'm from Honda but my previous 02 VFR w/ abs engine often stalls without any reason while doing canyon riding, during local drive. I just heard my co-worker's 04 Acura TL with only 85k transmission dead. I have a commuter 07 civic and its engine mount was replaced last year with only 45k miles. It comes down to statistics at the end. But per this forum, most R12S owners are happy without any outstanding reliablity issues (with statistical support). I'm also very happy with my 07 R12S and enjoy weekend canyon rides. Still no desire for other bikes yet.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:42 PM
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Now I'm really worried... our '07 Avalon just cooked a rear wheel bearing at 90,000 miles. It's parked right next to my '04S, I hope rear bearing failures aren't contagious in our garage.
Old 08-01-2012, 03:46 PM
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I wonder Japanese auto/bike makers are using more import parts causing more problems. Several years ago, I visited Tokyo electronic shop area called Akiabara. I saw they even put a sign for one item (rice cooker) "Made in Japan". My 80's Honda Accords lasted close to 200k with almost all original parts. Import parts and sourcing outs may lower the qaulity assurance/control.
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:17 PM
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