Chris (not Craig) Carr talks about HP & street riding

[bradzdotcom]

Chris Carr
7 Time National AMA Flat Track Champion (a true test of balls)
Road Racer (won big races, podiumed @ Daytona numerous times)
Current Land Speed Motorcycle World Record holder (at 367 MPH)

He still regularly rides on the street. Still had fun doing it. His opinion:

"As long as the bike is under 500 pounds, I'd say the perfect amount of horsepower for riding on the road would be around 75HP. Above that, then you're managing the HP and not the bike. I can pretty much ride as fast as anyone on the planet in the twisties, and you can't really use anything more than 75.
"What's the point of riding 150MPH on the straights? Might be fun a couple of times, but eventually it will get you killed or put in the jail, and neither is all that much fun."

while i absolutely admit that CC and his 75 HP can wax anybody i've ridden with recently, i think his 150 mph comment is interesting. he went more than twice that fast in race conditions, and i'm sure it was way more than twice as safe.

yes there was money exchanged, but it went the reverse of what we do when going fast.
and at bonneville you also get a ticket at the end, but no jail time.

still a very interesting point about weight and hp.
now all i need is the same amount of experience and proportional attachments...

[PFFOG]

Had this debate recently on my local BB, it started with the new Yamaha triple sport bike being announced.

I advocated pretty much the same, hp is over rated IMHO.

[pwillikers]

I love my SVs for just that reason. Upgrade the suspension and brakes and there's nothing I've ridden that's appreciably more fun.

[throttlemeister]

While it is a great argument you don't need more than 75hp, I would argue having a bike that has 150+ hp makes it a hell of a lot easier to ride with 75hp at the wheel. I personally don't like to wring the bike's neck. Not because I can't, but because I am lazy. I rather ride mid rpm and minimize shifts and focus on being smooth, than to constantly try to keep it in the powerband. It's tiring. It makes the bike buzzy, which makes it more tiring. And it draws the wrong kind of attention.

[Scblacksunshine]

Just don't tell that to the S1kRR folks that only ride on the streets, I am sure most of the superbike guys will argue this point to death until the cows come home...

P.S Is that 75HP to the wheel or 75HP at the crank?

[CarolinaBoxer]

Having ridden again the SV 650s at the track, IMHO, I can say in the proper hands they can totally wax a bike with twice the HP on a technical track. My GSXR 750 would easily pull an SV on the straights but mid corner out they are the king, so much easier to ride leaned over and on the gas. Having said that I enjoyed by GSXR more because of it's straight line ability. Hard to carry the front tire in third gear on the little SV. When I sold the GSXR a month ago at the end of the season, I bought the R12S because of a lot of factors, one was the relatively mild HP output compared to the other liter and liter+ class bikes.

[Scblacksunshine]

Originally Posted by CarolinaBoxer

Having ridden again the SV 650s at the track, IMHO, I can say in the proper hands they can totally wax a bike with twice the HP on a technical track. My GSXR 750 would easily pull an SV on the straights but mid corner out they are the king, so much easier to ride leaned over and on the gas. Having said that I enjoyed by GSXR more because of it's straight line ability. Hard to carry the front tire in third gear on the little SV. When I sold the GSXR a month ago at the end of the season, I bought the R12S because of a lot of factors, one was the relatively mild HP output compared to the other liter and liter+ class bikes.

So based on what you said, I guess HP2S is perfect? got just enough for the straight line rush and plenty of cornering speed...which is about the same for R12S

[Noblehops]

Yeah I'm not the fastest guy in any group of riders but I've provided plenty of 'stereo vision' of the front of my GS to plenty of guys on sport bikes that thought they were fast. I don't go fast in the straight sections either, I just don't slow down much in the corners. I agree with Carr, horsepower is not that useful on the street, great suspension is much more valuable.

I think I'm getting old.

N.

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by Noblehops

Y...........
I think I'm getting old.

N.

No just smarter.

[Noblehops]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

No just smarter.

Well if that's the case, it sure took long enough!

;-)

N.

[Nitro]

Torque is where it's at, 75hp means nothing really; you can have a bike with 75hp and 100lbs.ft of torque and another one with the same hp and 35lbs.ft spinning like a washer! A flat and ample torque curve is what rules on the street. You cannot even measure hp, it is interpolated from torque and rmp.

[shreddr]

Originally Posted by Nitro

Torque is where it's at, 75hp means nothing really; you can have a bike with 75hp and 100lbs.ft of torque and another one with the same hp and 35lbs.ft spinning like a washer! A flat and ample torque curve is what rules on the street. You cannot even measure hp, it is interpolated from torque and rmp.

bingo! which is why my 1258S is IMMENSELY more appealing to me than the gutless S1000RR Wunderkind (at least the one I rode, I have read that the 2012 model was much improved in that department)

[SergioK]

Yes yes yes, but manufacturers and marketers sell horsepower, not torque. From their perspective it's that sexy thing you want to grab a hold of, if you have what it takes, torque is the leftover at that party that hasn't hooked up with anyone.

[wswartzwel]

It is the fault of those magazine guys, back in the 70s-80s Sergio. All those road test's and numbers to compare. the russian's didn't have any of that and are still making Ural's.

[SeabeckS]

I totally get what Mr. Carr is saying...

My favorite bike for spirited road charging was a '96 Ducati 900SS/SP, which has the power level he's talking about. I've never been a hot handed rider (more like ham-fisted!), but into/through/out of corners that thing was just a pure hoot to ride. Plenty of torque and with the suspension dialed in the cornering feel was nearly telepathic.

Cheers!

[bradzdotcom]

Originally Posted by wswartzwel

It is the fault of those magazine guys, back in the 70s-80s Sergio. All those road test's and numbers to compare. the russian's didn't have any of that and are still making Ural's.

hey, hey watch it there buddy!
don't forget that i know people who know people who know where you live, so if you don't want your dog raped and your garbage cans stolen (or the reverse), you'd just better pipe down!

you want to feel what real torque feels like? grab one of those electric motocross bikes. torque out the wazoo.
back when we were actually testing electric bikes, we had one sporty-type street machine that was a friggin' rocket.
unfortunately, everybody was so torque-addicted that it constantly tore/chewed up everything between the electric motor and (including) the rear tire.
sure was fun to ride. only bike i've ever been on where my hands were actually pulled off the bars involuntarily.
they put a governor on it after that, but we still called it torquenstein.

they don't put cement flywheels on tractors for nothin'...

[ckcarr]

Don't believe anything someone named Carr says...

But, isn't this in a roundabout way, a variation of "The Pace?"
Wish he would have wrote a little more.

[1100s nut]

Agree with all of the above. But like the old saying" it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow"..... I think that was a saying...

[CarolinaBoxer]

Originally Posted by Scblacksunshine

So based on what you said, I guess HP2S is perfect? got just enough for the straight line rush and plenty of cornering speed...which is about the same for R12S

LOL, I don't personally think any bike is perfect,,some are just better at certain things than others, and then some just make you grin like a fool inside your helmet. I've watched Chris race on the mile at Indy, amazing rider, if he says something works then it damn well does!

[Rapid Dog]

...innerestin' subject...
I'm finding, perhaps more these days than earlier that, riding the same set of turns on no matter what bike I ride, be it heavier and more powerful, or lighter and more tiddler, a Ducati or a vintage boxer, I basically go the same speed within a 10mph range.
It doesn't take me any longer to get to Newcomb's on a WR250X than it does on an R1200RT....but I'm not racin', just ridin'.

..maybe it's just old age....or just flat skill level.