Brake pads... simpleZ? ( Organic, Sintered or Ceramic)

[ATA]

Hey fellas,

At the rear I got near dead end and have finally come to the new "bright idea" of what should I use
Organic, Sintered or Ceramic?

I understand, main description as one or the other is, then there is differences of manufacturers technology or quality of components, BUT heck as it come to the final choices I can not find definitive answer!

To simplify even more, I remember one mechanic taking about somebody coming to the garage for service, boosting about awesome improvement because of new pads used on his Mercedes brakes, to learn, that they where fake pads! ...
General saying is: "use Organic, unless you get good Sintered- those will perform best".... MEH...

To ask for more (and confuse readers and myself) further- "Wet" braking is one wheel turn over of a significance issue, else, brakes will be dry in both circumstances.

As in theory of having "bigger initial bite" from either... what?- I DON'T want least initial bite, I want brakes to be performing as I apply pressure!- Control!

Next "idea" as how it affects brake Discs (Rotors for American colleagues). I am seeing my OEM disc ever so badly grooved out due to the use of OEM Sintered pads and lets be honest rear brake is a bit of a joke anyway.... also, once such is the case it takes forever to get pads to bed inn.

Wear of Discs and potential issues of brake fluid "wear"- overheating... so when pads cost £13=$19, cost of a disc £70=$120, fluid cost pennies AND repairs or the failures BIG DOSH of CASH would indicate me wanting to try Organic?- No!
there is 3'rd option- Ceramic!

Is it really? Some say, that composites used in pads with Ceramic compounds- KILLS responsiveness to the brake pressure, also KILLS the discs and they wear out ever so quick....

Anyone has ideas or preferences? as in practical use or technical knowledge?

Here are few examples
BMW R1100S R1100 S 1996-2006 KYOTO REAR BRAKE PADS PAIR | eBay

BMW R 1100 S 2003 Sintered Motorcycle Front Brake Pads | eBay

BMW R 1100 S no ABS 2001 Platinum Rear Disc Brake Pads | eBay

FA181 Brake Pads for BMW R 1100 S 1998 | eBay

2000-2006 BMW R 1100 S w/oABS Brakes Ceramic Pads R1100S Front | eBay

[SergioK]

Originally Posted by ATA

Anyone has ideas or preferences? as in practical use or technical knowledge?

We are a bunch of old farts who only debate tires or oil... and once in a while the results of a sanctioned motorcycle event. Brakes you ask? All they do is slow you down and we are all faster now than we were last week.

If you want to improve braking, replace the rotors (all three) with Galfer Wave rotors and get Sintered pads. Replace rotors/pads simultaneously then bed them in properly.

[ATA]

Originally Posted by SergioK

We are a bunch of old farts who only debate tires or oil... and once in a while the results of a sanctioned motorcycle event. Brakes you ask? All they do is slow you down and we are all faster now than we were last week.

If you want to improve braking, replace the rotors (all three) with Galfer Wave rotors and get Sintered pads. Replace rotors/pads simultaneously then bed them in properly.

A bit misleading and a tad unfair of you!
we also talk about beers, good women and even better bikes!

I wouldn't go as far as changing Discs (Rotors), but would/could add, that after a longer rides there is difference for cleaning as what you get of dust residue on wheels from using different pads
Rear sintered BM OEM- some, black and and "sticky" sort of dust- I'd say more than
Front- Grey very fine dust (EBC Sintered). Taking away of really good performance of front brakes design, I'd guess they are good pads, but not as sensitive to pressure as I'd like.

[Groceryrun]

I've only changed the rear brake pads. I'll only comment on the rears.
Bike came with BMW sintered.
The rear parts get very warm using the rear brakes in the warm weather.
I changed over to the BMW organic thinking it would be a little cooler.
The organic produces a lot more black brake dust. The sintered only produced a little black brake dust.
The black brake dust might not mater much on a BMW GS or BMW GSA , but
I have an R1100S with yellow wheels.
I think the rear bits are a little cooler with the organics, but I'm not sure.

I heard one of the brake pad companies make an organic with Kevlar - I not sure if it will produce a lot of black brake dust or if the dust will even be black.

[throttlemeister]

I have tried a multitude of brake pads on my S's. EBC, Dunlopad, Ferodo, Braking, Lucas, BMW and some I can't remember right now. The best pads in my opinion are, by a long shot, the red aftermarket Brembo sintered pads.

[ATA]

Thanks guys, all of the deliberation....
(My bike is 1999 non ABS)
Brembo part number would be 07BB04SP ?
...considering price of (decent) EBC or Ferodo pads almost 3 times over, is it justifiable to be expecting 3 time of performance?
and to be honest- non the wiser!
:: EBC Brakes Direct Limited : Motorcycle : Brake Pads : Brake Discs : BMW : R 1100 S (Without integral ABS) : 1100 : (12/00-03)
says EBC FA363 or FA363HH
here's some alternative part numbers and fitment models list:
Kyoto 581334
Ferodo FDB2039 or FDB2039P or FDB2039ST
SBS 742
SBK 2900
Armstrong PAD320353

BMW
R 850 C 97-00 R
R 850 GS 96-00 R
R 850 R 94-06 R
R 850 RT 96-01 R
R 850 RT 06 R
R 1100 GS 93-99 R
R 1100 R 93-01 R
R 1100 S 96-06 R
R 1100 RT 94-01 R
R 1150 GS 98-04 R
R 1150 R 01-06 R
R 1150 RS 01-04 R
R 1150 RT 00-04 R
R 1150 R Rockster 03-06 R
HP2 1200 Enduro 05-07 R
R 1200 00-02 R
R 1200 C 96-04 R
R 1200 GS 04-06 R
K 1200 S (K40) 05-06 R
K 1200 R 05-06 R
R 1200 ST (K28) 03-07 R
R 1200 RT (K26) 03-07 R
R 1200 S 06-07 R
R 1200 R Sport 06-07 R
K 1200 R Sport 07 R
HP2 Megamoto 07 R
R 1200 GS Adventure (Spoke wheel) 07 R

[throttlemeister]

I don't know where you would get them, but I only paid 30 euro shipped for my Brembo's. I actually got them cheaper than most of the other I tried. On ebay the number you listed are $50, versus $35 for EBC. A little more expensive than I got them for, but still not 3x over?

And yes, for me, that price difference is worth it.

[ATA]

yeah they joy of fleaBay bargains... :P
Brembos are about £32, whilst others are from £10 up to £20, being sensible about £15...
The question would end up as open what composition should one go for, that isn't too scared of hot discs, but really likes pressure sensitive controlled braking... Wear of pads?- not big deal, EVEN wear on a discs is bit more of importance.

Brembo Motorcycle SP Rear Brake Pads For BMW 2000 R1100 S 07BB04SP | eBay

Galfer HH Rear Brake Pads BMW R1100R R1100S R1100RS R1100RT R1100GS | eBay

EBC HH Sintered Rear Brake Pads BMW R1100 RT 1994-2001 FA363HH | eBay

EBC Disc Brake Pads FA363HH FA 363HH BRAND NEW | eBay

ARMSTRONG REAR BRAKE PADS BMW R 1100 S (Non ABS) 2000 - 2003 | eBay

BMW R 1100 S no ABS 2001 Platinum Rear Disc Brake Pads | eBay

GOLDFREN REAR BRAKE PADS BMW R 1100 S (Non ABS) 2000 - 2003 | eBay

BMW R1100S R1100 S 1996-2006 KYOTO REAR BRAKE PADS PAIR | eBay

FA181 Brake Pads for BMW R 1100 S 1998 | eBay

Thanks!

[throttlemeister]

Since you are located in the UK, I bought my Brembo parts from KS Parts. Pads were 32 euro shipped (27 UKP). They speak English, very friendly and customer oriented and ship fast.

Just send an email to info@ks-parts.de.

[ATA]

Thanks throttlemeister !
Though only for rear... I'll just get some Arstrong or Galfer- both known as good names, as I'd be alright with EBC and even Ferodo... might go with organic after all... :dunno:
One thing is for sure- they do perform differently and what fleaBay says- I'm taking such with a pinch of salt.

[fgukfdukjzhuang]

Sintered or Ceramic?

[ATA]

Originally Posted by fgukfdukjzhuang

Sintered or Ceramic?

Myself ?- Sintered, as ceramic compounds believed to be "eating" discs and are not of pressure controlled nature. Then again which ceramic compound, what manufacturer- :dunno:
As for which metal compound being better- without proper testing or at least usage on a fronts hardly I will be able to to tell difference... going by the manufacturers (good) name.

[Mark R 1200 S]

My experience is with Brembo (stock BMW), BRAKING and Spiegler.

I had poor results with BRAKING sintered pads. They wasted my stock rotors. When I went to fit BRAKING rotors, they didn't fit.

I switched to Spiegler rotors and Spiegler ceramic pads, with Motul "ABS designed" brake fluid. The Spieglers don't stop as well as the stock BMW Brembo units but Spiegler sintered pads might probably bridge the gap.

The reason I replaced stock with Spiegler was cost. The stock BMW Brembo units are expensive.

Ceramic or Sintered? Ceramic lasts longer and is less expensive but don't perform as well. Sintered wear out quicker and cost more but provide better performance.

Really, this depends on how you use your R 1200 S. Mine is a daily rider so I opted for ceramic.

[throttlemeister]

Let's make clear something here: there is a big difference between Brembo and BMW (made by Brembo). They may come from the same factory, but they are very different. And not just in price.

[Mark R 1200 S]

Originally Posted by throttlemeister

Let's make clear something here: there is a big difference between Brembo and BMW (made by Brembo). They may come from the same factory, but they are very different. And not just in price.

You're saying there's a "big" difference between Brembo/BMW OEM and Brembo Replacement pads. I'm interested in hearing about your experience with the Replacement pads.

Which compound(s) have you tried? Brembo/BMW OEM rotors? Mileage?

Might give it a try.

Closing in on my 42K, replaced original Brembo/BMW OEM rear pads at ~36K. Have to check my notes but as I remember it I got ~28K on my first set of front brake pads, which were Brembo/BMW OEM. Now switched over to Spiegler rotors/pads in front, original Brembo/BMW OEM rear rotor and Spiegler rear brake pads. Upon writing this it occurs to me I should probably re-check rear brake rotor thickness.

[wiggledbits]

Since we are kicking around brake pads does anybody know for sure the part number for EBC HH front pads that'll fit my 04 IABS Brembo calipers?

[sgoodwin]

According to ebc's website fa294hh but I see it's wrong from the other post in the classified. I have Brembo calipers on my '99 & they use the fa407hh, maybe the same? Too much confusion, I'd call ebc direct & get the right number, if they even know. Their website sucks azz to use. Great pads sucky website.

[wiggledbits]

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

According to ebc's website fa294hh but I see it's wrong from the other post in the classified. I have Brembo calipers on my '99 & they use the fa407hh, maybe the same? Too much confusion, I'd call ebc direct & get the right number, if they even know. Their website sucks azz to use. Great pads sucky website.

Every place I have gone specs the FA294HH and I think that is wrong. I am hoping the 3 try is the correct one. I got one pair for free and gave them away for shipping, bought another pair that don't fit (I think they are the FA294 equivalent) that I might give away for free, now I want the correct ones.

I even tried the Brembo site their web site sucks too.

[Lentz]

I used EBC HH brake pads on my 12S and they made a difference.

I used the same type of pads on my Buell 1125R without noticing much change. The Buell responded to a smaller master cylinder and caliper with larger pistons.

All the rest of my bikes have had adequate to good rear brakes so that's the sum total of my experience.

The HH pads I used are sintered. I used the EBC pads on the Buell with a Braking rear disc and haven't noticed any unusual wear.

[shreddr]

Nate recommended Vesrah green pads for the R12S, I tried em and they rocked!