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Angry Warning all to Two Brother owners

If you have Two Brother racing cans on your bike, prepare yourself for some costly repairs. This weekend I have discovered that my carbon fiber cans sleeve has begun to seperate from the end caps leaving a gap which hot exhaust escapes through, burning the heat shield and effecting the body work on the tail sections. I have discussed this with TB's less than helpful "support" staff and they have admitted they are now using a stronger carbon fiber sleeve. TB believes that the blame rests on the end user (me) for not having repacked the end cans with every oil change. (every 3000 miles!). Please note that the only mention TB makes of repacking of the cans is as "occasional" on their web site and there is no suggested intervals nor could TB staff suggest more useful numbers.

If you've seen my past posts of this forum before you know I have been a fan and supporter of Two Brother Racing exhaust system for some time. Over the weekend my opinion of them [TB] has drastically changed. In short, don't waste your money on their products. While their over all product is good, their failure to stand behind their work out weighs any benefit of their exhaust.



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Old 10-28-2002, 11:01 AM
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Vanderlinde Vanderlinde Vanderlinde Vanderlinde Vanderlinde Vanderlinde Vanderlinde Vanderlinde Vanderlinde Vanderlinde
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Old 10-28-2002, 11:10 AM
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Those Two Brothers? Do they get along or just build products that cost you money?
Can't beat Vanderlinde!
Better start screaming at them t0land!
This is a why most OEM manufacturers shy against aftermarket parts! Good Luck....thanks for the heads up!

Cheers
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Old 10-28-2002, 12:35 PM
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Hardly a suprise for anyone that's dealt with two brothers for any length of time. I, and many others, have posted about a mediocre product with even worse service as far back as a couple years ago.

I don't mean for that to sound like an "I told you so" as I'm genuinely sorry to see that happen to any S owner, much less t0land who has always seemed like a good guy to me. I respond only to offer a bit of caution. There is a fair amount of advice offered on this board that is more than a little reckless. Sure, a lot of things work for a while, but a lot of things take their toll over time too. Getting a quick benefit doesn't tell you much about durability or long term adviseability.

On the other hand, maybe I just take the more conservative route, because I'm a cheap-ass and don't like the old if-you-want-to-play--you've-got-to-pay law that seems almost as inviolable as the laws of physics. Learned that (painfully) hotrodding cars years ago.

Anyway, have fun with stuff, but if you hear a company's products routinely given bad reviews, by many people, across many product lines (plenty of complaints about them on duc and honda lists too, except for maybe the hawk list) you have to start thinking about supporting their company and/or product.

To be fair, I should say that I've had a couple tbr parts on my and friends' hawks, that have been just fine. They do some good stuff sometimes. (I just don't like my odds)

Anyway, good luck getting it resolved t0. Hate to see any lister having trouble.

Regards
Roger
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Old 10-28-2002, 12:39 PM
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Holy Crap!, tOland.
What a mess...all the way around. Sorry to hear/see. Good luck!

To Roger: 'had to look up "inviolable." :-)

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Old 10-28-2002, 01:56 PM
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Cripes, that sounds like such a typical TBR respons:

"Hi my pipes died"

"It's your fault because you didn't repack them every 3000 miles."

"Where does it say I'm supposed to do that?"

"It doesn't."

That company is borderline criminal. Personally I won't give them another penny of my money under any circumstances. There are too many companies out there that will deal with their customers honestly.
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Old 10-28-2002, 02:08 PM
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Man I hate having their product on my bike after hearing your little tale and having my own issues with their product. I will offer up as a word of advice to anyone with any company's Carbon fiber exhaust though...The stuff can/does deteriorate over time. Even if you were to repack it etc, it's just the nature of the beast IMHO. The heat seems to make it brittle and the vibration works in cracks which leads to its inevitable demise.

t0land, I'd write them a letter saying you HAD repacked it as per their instructions and you want another pipe or refund. Cant hurt to try.
Old 10-28-2002, 02:34 PM
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Staintune, Staintune, Staintune, Staintune. Two pipes are better than one braukwurst.
.
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Old 10-28-2002, 04:31 PM
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tOland,
Sorry about the crappy parts. I doesn't look like all is lost by looking at your photos. It appears that the rivets for the end caps had only a small section of carbon fibre to hold onto. A small faiberglass or carbon fiber patch /w some epoxy and then a sleeve made of shim stock should lend enough strength to the carbon fiber can so teh end cap will saty put. It may sound like a little work, but you've already made the investment & if you can't get a better engineered product, you can kae it better your self. Good luck.!! (some great words from a guy with cans from a different mfg?)
Old 10-28-2002, 04:52 PM
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I don't remember any warrenty with the TBR system. Like most high performance "OFF HIGHWAY USE ONLY" parts there is no warrenty.

I have worked in the aircraft industry for quite a few years on composite materials. I don't feel comfortable with the use of any composite material for an exhaust system on any thing. Carbon fiber is nothing more than an over glorified fiberglass part which has a little more stength than fiberglass. Heat and vibration takes it toll as clearly demonstrated by this exhaust system. I have the aluminum cans and have had no trouble for the past year at all!.

All of the statements I read about repacking the TBR have been vague at best.

Roger what are you trying to say?

"There is a fair amount of advice offered on this board that is more than a little reckless."

My experiance with TBR has not been bad, is that a reckless statement?

I will agree you get what you pay for. I spent the time researching my decision on which system to buy and knew exactly what I was getting into.

Happy with my TBR in CA!!
Old 10-28-2002, 06:40 PM
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Hey t0land,

When I was considering aftermarket exhaust, I contacted TBR to inquire about the CF cans they advertise. I was told the CF cans had been available but were being redesigned due to the CF delaminating from excessive heat in the underseat area of the S. I took that to mean that the cans were not properly designed. Now, they're telling you they have come out with a heavier CF can. That figures. I ended up buying the titanium cans and have had no problems (no discoloration, etc.). They told me to repack the cans at 7K, but I have extended that out to 10K. After about 8.5K, the dB's get pretty loud! No biggie! I hope you can work something out with them.

I've had very good luck working with TBR. My plate bracket came apart and tore some things up on the rear of the bike. I called, emailed photos of the damage, and they replaced everything that was damaged, no arguments!

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Old 10-28-2002, 06:50 PM
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Have had good luck with my non-CF TBR exhaust. No problems.

I specifically avoid CF exhaust with twin engined bikes. I've read the pulse is hard on the cans, and dealers have told me the same. You will see CF cans on Ducatis, but the expectation is they will be short-lived... why I went with titaniums.
Old 10-28-2002, 07:05 PM
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"You will see CF cans on Ducatis, but the expectation is they will be short-lived... why I went with titaniums."

Yep! My mint-conditioned cf cans on my 996S are not as hot to the touch, but they're going to be replaced soon by Termi Ti's for the longevity they render.

Not to sound cheeky with all this, t0land...I hope things works out for you.

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Old 10-28-2002, 08:08 PM
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It sucks that TBR personal can't handel customer relations better but I can't fault their product. I have over 30k mi and 4 years on the aluminum small oval model I've repacked them twice but other then that just Mother's metal polish and they still look great.

If I remember right it was a Staintune system that had cracked collector pipe problems on this forum not a TBR system. At twice the price I would expect better of Staintune.(did they get a new pipe free?)

How many BMW- TBR owner's are having muffler or pipe problems (not license bracket problems)? your the only one I've heard of so far on this forum.
Guys before you jump on the bandwagon and condemn a manufacturer I like to see more then one unjustified failure.
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Old 10-28-2002, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe

Guys before you jump on the bandwagon and condemn a manufacturer I like to see more then one unjustified failure.
Here's my story:

Bought their bar risers for my Daytona ($340). The instructions did not come with any torque settings for the bolts, so before getting started I called TBR and got the settings. They told me 14 ft/lbs for the main bolts and 12 ft/lbs for the top bolts.

The bottom bolts went on just fine. As I torqued the first top bolt past 6 ft/lbs it snapped. Tried another, and it snapped at 8 ft/lbs. I called TBR and explained the situation - that I torqued to their settings and two bolts snapped. The TBR guy said - get this - it was my fault because 12 ft/lbs was WAY too tight. WTF? I called and got the torque setting from them! He said sorry if I got bad information, but they were not going to cover them under warranty.

I sent them back and disputed the charge. I fought with them for six months, and they lied at every turn: that they never told me 12 ft/lbs (I'd documented the day, time, and person I talked with), that I'd never called them to discuss the problem (again, documented), and then that they'd never received the bars back (signed for two days after I shipped them).

And so, after the fourth go-round, with all of the documentation in place, I got my money back from the credit card company who then back-charged TBR. But what about the customer that didn't have the foresight to document all that? He would have been f|_|cked - a broken product, no support, and out $340.

That company is nothing but thieves in my opinion. As I mentioned above, there are way too many companies that will stand behind their product to ever justify giving TBR another penny of my money. JMHO.
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Old 10-29-2002, 01:20 AM
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TBR Cans

I've had the round TBR CF cans on for around 12,000 miles and repacked them once in that time. Whilst the bracketry leaves much to be desired, the cans themselves have been fine, though they are beginning to discolour now due to the heat. I had to carry out a few mods to make them fit properly and not fall off but the quality is reasonable, and best of all I only paid the price of the aluminium cans due to a mistake on their part. So thats me-1 TBR-0. Having had cause to contact them since my purchase I have to agree that they are not too good at customer relations and I probably wouldn't buy any of their products again, firstly because they seem underdeveloped and secondly because of their attitude.
Old 10-29-2002, 02:03 AM
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Old 10-29-2002, 03:39 AM
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It sounds like they have the wrong people working with the public.... it's too bad they could have a good product but minimum wage earners ruin it for them.

Sometimes you have to deal with the Devil.

BTW I didn't have a dyno graph with just the reg and pipe.
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Old 10-29-2002, 03:46 AM
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I'm glad a I got my carbon C5 system at $575.00.Thanks for the warning, I'll be watching the cans VERY close now.I was wondering if I could use Two Brothers slip ons(titanium for example) in place of my carbon cans.I see them for sale every now and then.It would seem the slip-ons should be compatible with the full system.
Old 10-29-2002, 05:32 AM
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I don't think it's a TB problem. I think the carbon fiber is to be blamed. The trand is shifting from CF to Ti for obvious reasons. I saw Ducatis with expensive Termignioni completely blown after 5000 miles. Next time get SS, Al, or Ti.

Nick
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Old 10-29-2002, 05:57 AM
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Old 10-29-2002, 05:57 AM
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