Ducati Down…. BMW replacement?

[trader220]

Ducati Down…. BMW replacement?

After 29 years on the road I took my first real dump on a bike. I laid down bikes many times off road as a teenager. This was the first serious dump I have taken in a couple hundred thousand miles on the streets and a handful of track days.
Downshifted and braking into a 180 degree switchback mild downhill grade and only going about 30 MPH, the front end locked up and the bike went right down. I felt it happening and pushed it away so it didn’t land on me. I also had full gear head to toe so zero road rash. My gear is shredded, my helmet just barely skimmed the ground and just the shield has some minor scratches. I popped the ligament in my left clavicle, and that’s the worst of my injuries, the rest is just a little soreness for a 51 year old guy. I now have a matched set of popped ligaments, having lost the right one back in the early 1990’s in a snowboarding accident. Its not been a stellar summer. I never spent a night in the hospital until June when I spent 2 weeks in for some unknown virus, stumping modern medicine at two hospitals, and now this shoulder injury.

Anyway the ST4S was a total loss. I made a fair settlement with Progressive and now I am looking for a replacement.

I have been riding a 15 S1000RR at the track but I have no interest in a beast like that for the road.

My question is this… R1100S or R1200S or Boxer Cup ? Pros and Cons ?

Thanks in advance.

[ricky racer]

Originally Posted by trader220

My question is this… R1100S or R1200S or Boxer Cup ? Pros and Cons ?

You won't regret any of the above.....

[bradzdotcom]

the boxer cup rep is an r1100s.
it just has more lipstick, which makes it prettier to some.

[Bob Hancock]

Awhile back I had a 2004 R1100S BCPrep which I liked very much. Then I got a 2007 R1200S and kept the R11S for about 6 months to compare. I ended up selling the R11S and keeping the R12S, which is now gone but on the list of bikes I should have kept. So...if it were me, and those were the two options, I'd get the R12S. Or if you have reached the point where the crouch is getting a bit much (as was I), get a new R12GSW. A truly great bike which will run with the R12S until you get into triple digits.
FWIW....HTH.

[trader220]

Bob, Thanks...

Before I bought the Ducati I had spoken to you about your R1200s which you had for sale. I fella from NY picked it up before I pulled the trigger which lead me to the ST4S. Thanks for the opinion.

My assumption is that these boxer motors will roll a lot of miles before they need a tear down? The new BMW is nice but its beyond my budget. The S1000R ( not the RR) is also interesting but its also more than I am going to spend.

[Bob Hancock]

The engines will last forever. The weak points are basically anything aft of the transmission, especially the rear drive. Of course this is all here-say coming from me as I've never had one with more than about 45,000 miles on them but they were solid at that time.
Yep....that R1200S is one I shoulda kept. The guy who bought it got 2 or 3 tickets going home. It's deceptively fast. So he sold it pretty quickly to a guy in New Jersey and I lost track of it after that.

Great bike. I had two ST4's and if you like them, you'll like the 12S.

[Jozef Schumann]

Hi, sorry to read about your 'get-off'. I'm a bit, though not much older and have had my share as well, although most of them many years ago - on dirt. As I've aged I seem to have become more sensitive to the residual effects of those, sometimes rather hairy - biffs n bails. It seems as if every joint is hell bent on retribution for what I'd put it through so many years ago. Anyhow, being an avid gearhead with cycles part of my DNA, I've always had something to toss a leg over ever since doing so on my first real motorcycle - a then way b*tchen 1965 Bultaco 250 Matador which mom and dad bought for me in appreciation for spending June and a good part of July of the same year repainting our house, many of those days in 100f + heat.

Over the years I've had quite the sometimes esoteric bevy of motorcycles - even now, what with no less than 7 occupying (much to wifeys chagrin) a sizeable portion of our garage. Also, just like you - I have a Ducati cruiser (one of several I've owned over the years), this one a skyhook multistrada which has heretofore proven to be a high tech POS, brilliant when it works without something setting off an error code necessitating yet another trip to the stealer - reliability being illusive resulting in a modicum of angst anytime myself or one of the kids dare take it on anything more than a 100 mile sojourn.

Always keen on BMW boxers and being they hail from the same sector of the globe as I do, I did a lot of research as I'm prone to do before finally purchasing one. I figured it was time, especially when the marque finally started making machines more in-line with what I wanted instead of those befitting an avuncular uncle, so I read and read and read. I decided on, and located an absolutely gorgeous '07 R1200S. Black with the Ohlins and wide wheel option. This one had only been in use for a few months, it was absolutely pristine with less than 3k miles - caveat being it was located in Hilliard Ohio. No sweat, I thought. I'll send the guy a deposit, book a flight and ride it some 2200 miles back home through some of the most beautiful country and roads on earth.

Everything goes as planned and the bike was about as perfect as one can be. The seller hadn't misrepresented one iota, so - I fork over the balance, mount the machine and take off on my trek back home looking forward to the normally joyous getting to know one another familiarization process, hopefully followed by all of the distinct dynamic virtues I'd so often read about. Bear in mind now, up until this point I'd been riding my Aprilia RSV's, which were serving as triple-duty touring/very spirited street/ and sometimes track day bikes. Which, btw - they do incredibly well. I often do track days on either my F4 Tamburini MV Augusta, Ducati 999R or Yammie R-1 and usually place mid pack with the quick, old guys, so its not as if this summation is coming from an lethargic neophyte. But I digress:

I hadn't been in the saddle for more than 5 minutes before realizing this thing just did nothing for me! Aside from looking awesome in its gleaming black, fat rear tire and hints of yellow Ohlins spring, it was a total let down. At that moment I entertained calling the guy I bought it from and telling him I'd made a terrible mistake, I'm bringing it back, I was less than 20 miles away and he can keep $500 for the hassle. Well, it was my own fault. I should have ridden it (or one like it) before sealing the deal, let alone flying out there!. I didn't, and based on the glowing accolades by owners on this board and others I bought on impulse. I suppose I had unrealistic expectations, after all BMW's have forged a reputation and are synonymous for reliability, performance and comfort. At that particular point, all I knew was it didn't perform anywhere close to my Aprilia's in any objective metric. Not in acceleration, nor braking, certainly not handling prowess and particularly surprising - not in comfort. The Aprilia's could eat this thing anywhere... at anything, save one area. On ice or low friction surfaces. The Aprilia's have no ABS. I thought, well...maybe it'll grow on me, hell, I've got 2200 miles ahead of me.. Maybe, just maybe..Well, if it weren't for the epic beauty of the landscape and my chosen route home, I'd have stayed at a hotel long enough to have a transport company pick the thing up and booked a flight home instead. I bought it at a good price and everything that moves sells pretty quickly in California. I ended up wanting to fall in..at least "like" with the bike and put another couple of thousand miles on it. Never Happened. I ended up selling it within a few months - at a tidy profit, I might add.

Still, there was something about a boxer that intrigued me - a je ne sais quoi if you will and I failed to accept that every boxer owner must be a poser or snooty look-at-me-on-my BMW schmuck. No, there has to be something there, somewhere to justify its appeal to the legions of worldwide loyalists.

Then, at a neighbours get together during an impromptu chat about motorcycles I was informed of a BMW being available at some ridiculously low price. The quadzillionaire owner bought it, and a few other vehicles as toys to occupy his time with and had now tired of them and was having a relative wholesale them off. I ended up having a look later that week.

The bike was an '03 R1100S. I took it for a spin and was immediately smitten. No, it didn't pull as strongly as the 12 did, but it was everything else that appealed to me. It checked all of the boxes in a way I had hoped the 12 would but didn't. I started a thread way back when. Actually, if you do search - I've had some ridiculous, albeit well known transmission issues with it as well. Bottom line is. Ride one, whichever model it is you're interested in, do not take everything or anything you read from others as gospel. We all have our own likes/dislikes. Along with many others and being retired - I'm fortunate enough to be in an position to purchase (within reason) whatever tickles my fancy. Cars and motorcycles will remain a huge part of who I am for the foreseeable future. Many more will come and go, but I can guarantee you one thing for certain. My R1100S will forever have a spot in my garage.

I apologize for the novella but feel it was required in order to emphasize how important it is to try-before-you-buy.

Here's the thread I started:

Well, I bought it - ('03 r11s)

J.S.

[Mitch1100]

My question is this… R1100S or R1200S or Boxer Cup ? Pros and Cons ?
Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

If you are vertically challenged you may find the BoxerCup seat too high, also the 1200s is easier to access battery, air filter etc. Removing fairing panels on the BCR/R1100s is a pain...but I wouldn't part with either of mine

[brentw1]

the st4s is a pretty different creature are you looking for a more touring bike?

[Trestles]

You may owe it to yourself to test a new water boxer, these are fabulous engines, and I suspect work well in any flavor of bike.

I spent a couple hours on an R1200R a few months ago, and liked it a lot, and thought that an R1200RS just may be the perfect bike. And it still may be before too long.

So the rest of the story.......
I recently sold a 2002 R1150R with lower bars, ohlins suspension and a cat eliminator. I really liked to take trips on it, but the chassis would still lose the plot after about 80% max canyon speed. It just didn't feel stiff enough. I do have a Ducati 955 SP, and a well dialed in and breathed on 1992 900ss, so something a bit more distance and tour capable was in the cards, but something that still handles well. For me the chassis composure, steering and handling is far higher up the priority list than HP. YOMV

I started looking at used R1100s's while I was pondering what to liquidate to come up with $20k for a new RS. My twisted logic evolved to this, if I could get about 80% of the functionality of the R12RS for 1/3 the price, an R1100s might be the answer. So I bought one.

Riding home on the one I bought, I thought I made a big mistake. Compared to my 1150 it seemed flat in the mid-range and it vibrated. But, and this is the big one, a new set of Bridgestone S20's combined with careful valve an TB tuning has transformed it. Also a set of the ribbed grips helped the slight remaining tingle at a couple engine speeds. It still doesn't have quite the mid-range the 1150 did, but it has more on the top end. So power is a wash overall. It gets to a buck ten fairly quickly too.

The steering and front end feedback is a major improvement over the 1150, the chassis feels stiff and composed at any pace I am willing to ride, and it is easily all day comfortable. So is this the life-long keeper? I'm not sure, but it is definitely growing on me, and to a surprising degree. I look forward to every ride. When I need a hot rod I have either Ducati, and I'm looking forward to fall so I can go out to Anza Borrego, and S22, one of my favorite roads anywhere. So Test ride one, and keep an open mind. An R1200s too if possible.

Lastly, buy carefully and you can always get your $ out of it.

[CoffeeGuy]

Originally Posted by trader220

My assumption is that these boxer motors will roll a lot of miles before they need a tear down? The new BMW is nice but its beyond my budget. The S1000R ( not the RR) is also interesting but its also more than I am going to spend.

145,xxx miles on my r1100s. I also bought and sold another r1100s with 103,xxx miles that had no issues (engine issues, that is).

The boxer engines can handle many miles without a problem.

[trader220]

I would really love a chance to ride them both.

Thanks for all of the opinions. Not sure I am going to be pushing myself as much as I used to on the road... may just have to keep it to the track and then enjoy the ride on the public roads a bit more.

Prices are all over the map on the R12S and R11S. Its almost funny to see some priced north of 10 grand and others for about 1/2 that.

I am about 6'2" and go about 225 with all my gear on... how comfortable for the longer days are these bikes?

[Cruzer]

Same here. Works for me. Up to 14 hours from start to finish, though pretty flammable by then. Seat IS important. I put foot ASW lowering pegs that rotate and put the feet forward rather than down and surprisingly they work well. Have Rapid bar backs but took them off. Good, clean air screen. Bags back and tank. Bob's your uncle. Oh yah...R11S.

[CoffeeGuy]

Originally Posted by trader220

I would really love a chance to ride them both.

Thanks for all of the opinions. Not sure I am going to be pushing myself as much as I used to on the road... may just have to keep it to the track and then enjoy the ride on the public roads a bit more.

Prices are all over the map on the R12S and R11S. Its almost funny to see some priced north of 10 grand and others for about 1/2 that.

I am about 6'2" and go about 225 with all my gear on... how comfortable for the longer days are these bikes?

I can comfortably do back to back 600 mile days. I've done more, but start getting uncomfortable beyond that.

Coming back from Montana a few weeks ago I did 1,400 in two days and felt fine after a good night sleep. I probably couldn't do more than 150 on the stock seat, but everybody has different seats (pun intended).

I have a Corbin on mine.

ETA: Bar risers and a peg lowering kit help also.

[bradzdotcom]

r11s
stock seat, stock bars.
custom feets pegs (inch back, inch up).
been doing 600 to 800 miles a week on it.
still comfy on fwy, hwy and twisties.
tried the 12 eons ago, but felt less comfortable, due to more pressure on the wrists.
probably could have worked out the ergos with a footpeg set-up and maybe bar backs, but the boxer cup was still prettier.

[levert]

After my 1100s I had an ST4S.
Go for the 1200 otherwise you will miss the power you have been used too.

[trader220]

I had my ST4S set up really well and it was making a decent clip more power than stock. Nothing over the top, opened the airbox a bit, swapped out the exhaust and had the ecu done to match the new air and exhaust volumes. I also changed the final drive ratio. Had Ohlins front and rear too. It leaned more towards the sport side of the sport touring equation.

I like the idea of ABS my Duc didn't have it. I also like the idea that the R11S has a lot more options for adjusting the ergonomics to set up for longer rides. Ultimately the HP2 is the bike but I am not interested in spending that kind of dough for a bike I ride 4 to 6k miles a year.

The other thing is this... the dump reminded me that I am not 25 years old anymore and I am responsible for more than just my little world so ripping through the back roads of bumblefuk PA one or two Sunday's a month for 4 or 500 miles is still going to happen, I just now remember I am 51.

I had done a couple of track days with the Cali Superbike School this year on their bikes (S1000RR). I didn’t fear anything there because the bike had capabilities well beyond my skill and my cajonies. I also know that at the track I don’t have to worry about any hazards, traffic or room to run off. Riding that bike makes the S1000R appealing but for the same reason as the HP2 I don’t see the value in spending $15 to 20k on a bike. Now the new R1200RS really looks awesome if you’re going to pony up.

[whyme111]

i had an r11s years ago, now r12s with heli bars and a r12r. The S for" bling" the 12s over the 11s . I would rather ride the R in the real world. full ex. on the R, half system on the S.

[sgoodwin]

The ABS is overrated, my bike's brakes are many times better with it removed. It had a tendency to activate exactly when you needed brakes the most. Newer ABS may be better than old but I much prefer to be the one in control.

[Cruzer]

My 2004 ABS works just fine and I seem to be the one in control. Never done anything strange, once I got used to it. Very powerful. Wouldn't go to manual.