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World's Slowest Wrench
 
Dana in Philly's Avatar
 
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2000 R1100S Driveline Issue

Hi folks,

Had my bike out for its first Spring ride Saturday. Just a brief run-in to see how everything felt.

Didn't get more than five miles.

I should say the engine sounded and felt fine to start. Transmission and final drive fluids were changed last year, and run less than 1000 miles. Engine oil was topped off before the ride.

I was winding her up in second gear on a hill when the engine raced and I heard and felt a grinding sound. I thought it was a false neutral, so lightly declutched and downshifted to get her back into second. Same issue, so I pulled over and shut her down.



Home again, after the flatbed ride, these symptoms:

- Engine idles in neutral but makes an unpleasant grinding sound.
- Using the clutch lever, the bike can be put into neutral, first, second, normally.
- Visual inspection of the flywheel/clutch area through the little rubber port above the right-side injector shows no metal bits or shavings. Looks fine in there.

So, any ideas?

Given the current market value of the bike, versus the cost of having a mechanic tear down the driveline, I'm tempted to do this project myself. Initial questions:

- How to support the bike during disassembly? Any threads on this?
- Tools needed?

Comments welcome.
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Dana in Philly
2000 Mandarin R1100S Garage Queen
Old 04-17-2017, 10:00 AM
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Sounds like sheared spline.

See if this search holds up:
Pelican Parts Technical BBS - Search Results
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cRaIg CaRr
2000 R1100S, 2000 Dyna FXDX, 2015 rNineT. 2016 F800GS, 2016 Jeep Rubicon. 2001 Corvette, 1978 Porsche 928. Schwinn Homegrown MTB & Fastback Road Bike. 22 pairs of shoes. 44 bottles of beer.
Time Marches On: 2015 F800GS, 2010 F800GS, 2007 R1200S, 2003 Dakar, Buell 1125r, 2001 F650GS. 1999 F650. 1998 HD Sportster Sport. 2010 F150, 1995 GMC Sierra ALL GONE
Old 04-17-2017, 10:30 AM
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Lots and lots of threads on this...Sounds like a transmission input shaft/clutch spline failure. I just fixed my '01 this winter. BMW recommends a couple of special tools but I was able to modify/rig what I had to do the job without anything special.

I replaced the entire clutch assembly (housing, flywheel, etc), added a spacer to get better spline engagement and installed a new input shaft on the transmission (getting the shafts out is a pain but doable). This, plus all seals ran me around $2k. The bike runs and shifts better than new.

You can save about $700 if you just replace the clutch plate (and another $275 if you input shaft is serviceable), but without getting into a root cause of failure debate, after reading many threads on on this failure, my conclusion was that everything needed to be replaced since I plan to keep the bike and don't want to do the repair again...

FYI - I've owned my R11S from new and this was my second spline failure. The 1st BMW warranty covered but they only replaced the clutch plate. The 2nd failure occurred at almost exactly 2x the miles of the first.

-Jim
Old 04-17-2017, 10:32 AM
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World's Slowest Wrench
 
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Feh. Instead of riding, I'll be wrenching.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:43 AM
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Well, it is a 17 year old motorcycle. How many actual miles on it? (Not that the mileage has any bearing on spline failure statistics). Just idle curiosity to compare to mine.
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cRaIg CaRr
2000 R1100S, 2000 Dyna FXDX, 2015 rNineT. 2016 F800GS, 2016 Jeep Rubicon. 2001 Corvette, 1978 Porsche 928. Schwinn Homegrown MTB & Fastback Road Bike. 22 pairs of shoes. 44 bottles of beer.
Time Marches On: 2015 F800GS, 2010 F800GS, 2007 R1200S, 2003 Dakar, Buell 1125r, 2001 F650GS. 1999 F650. 1998 HD Sportster Sport. 2010 F150, 1995 GMC Sierra ALL GONE
Old 04-17-2017, 10:50 AM
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assuming it does turn out to be the splines... you can make a stand made of 2x4s and 4x4s. mine was two side support beams along the ground with a 4x4 crossbeam whose top was a smidge higher than the sump bottom. i plopped the bike onto it from the centerstand (sitting on the beam just behind the oil filter), then used ratchet ties to strap down the heads onto the side support parts of the stand. it ended up sitting for a few months split in half without problems

also interested in total mileage on ze bike
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:07 AM
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27,683 miles.

That's nothing. (Or should be.) I put two K-bikes (one a 1989 monolever K100LT, the other a 1994 paralever K1100RS) past 80,000 miles each, without any driveline issues.
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Last edited by Dana in Philly; 04-17-2017 at 11:27 AM..
Old 04-17-2017, 11:25 AM
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Sounds like clutch spline failure.

Mine is on the stand now and has been since mid Nov. Hope to get time to finish it soon. Easy to make a stand out of wood.

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RBMann- The road is his workshop, and his trips are opportunities to do much needed repairs. -Bill S.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:32 AM
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Gonna dig into the threads here, figure out how to take it apart.

The trick will be putting it back together. Anybody can take stuff apart.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:00 PM
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If you tear into it and find that your splines have sheared away I would suggest adding this to the rebuild parts list...

BMW 1150GS Clutch Splines spacer kit | Adventure Rider
Old 04-17-2017, 03:19 PM
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Dana,
I am so sorry to hear this. My 2004 did the exact same thing last July when I went to pass a car. The sound it made when I pulled to the side of the road was just as you described.

I started to take mine apart this weekend. I haven't ordered any parts yet except for a slave cylinder for the clutch, because I want to make sure I order all I need at the same time.

I talked to Esmir already about the spacer. My bike is in wonderful condition except for this issue. It still puts a smile on my face.

I had a Honda 750 K-2 that I put 180,000 miles on and never had a failure like this.

Mine lasted longer than yours. I got 46,000 miles on mine before it happened.

I hope it goes well for you.
Rob.

Last edited by twitchy; 04-17-2017 at 03:29 PM..
Old 04-17-2017, 03:22 PM
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Take pics as you get into it. It will make putting it back together much easier. Wire routing & the small stuff can drive you nuts trying to figure where it went.
Old 04-17-2017, 03:23 PM
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I don't think the Esmir spacer can be added to an 1100cc bike. There is already a full engagement of the old spline.

In my opinion though that doesn't make any difference as your problem is most likely radial misalignment between the axis of crankshaft rotation and transmission input shaft rotation. I have created a run out measuring rig for an R1100RT that can be mailed to you after you survey the total nature of the failure.

Why is there always a flurry of these spline failures in the spring? Weird!
Old 04-17-2017, 05:40 PM
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Sorry to hear about what sounds like a spline failure. I suggest the clutch spacer too. Saved money over the dealer and I really like this place, Motorworks UK https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Home/index.php
Shipping is reasonable and fast, my clutch pack was all Sachs OEM parts.

Hope it goes together well for you.
Old 04-17-2017, 05:48 PM
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Besides offering the spacer kit , Esmir also offers a modified clutch plate with the spacer already to install.

Update - he might be out of parts till the end of the month, but I would contact him if you want one , so that he can take a head count.

Esmir keeps this thread over at the ADV Rider forum current -

BMW 1150GS Clutch Splines spacer kit | Adventure Rider
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:11 PM
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Hi. I'm really sorry to hear that. It's definitely the clutch splines. You need to make some seriously hard decisions about that bike. In a functional state it's worth about $3000. Fixing your problem will cost from $1000 to $2500 depending on how you go about it. It may not be worth it to fix.

In my opinion your best bet is to replace your transmission with a known-good used transmission. Between that and some new clutch parts you might be able to get away with spending a grand or so. There are several on eBay right now. You need to make sure you don't buy another bad one. The one in the first link below is bad. In the second pic you can see the wear on the input splines. Don't buy it. the one in the second link may be OK, but don't buy it until you get a few good pics of the input splines to make sure they're OK.

A quick note, nrpeterson is mistaken. As you know, the R1100S has the six-speed transmission, like the 1150 series. The five-speed tranny that goes in the rest of the 1100 series is in fact a different animal. Speaking of that, it would be interesting to know if a transmission from one of the other bikes in the 1150 series would fit. I'd be a little surprised if they did. I've never studied them side-by-side, but I think the mounting points are different. Mike at Beemerboneyard will know.

1999 BMW R1100S OEM Transmission | eBay

BMW 1999 R1100S 6 SPEED TRANSMISSION - LOW MILES | eBay
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Old 04-18-2017, 12:33 AM
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Whoa. That could get you killed if there were close oncoming traffic. Sheesh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchy View Post
My 2004 did the exact same thing last July when I went to pass a car. The sound it made when I pulled to the side of the road was just as you described.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:07 AM
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Thanks for the image, RBMann. That helps. I can do something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBMann View Post
Sounds like clutch spline failure.

Mine is on the stand now and has been since mid Nov. Hope to get time to finish it soon. Easy to make a stand out of wood.

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Old 04-18-2017, 03:12 AM
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Let me apologize in advance for all the dumb questions I'm likely to ask the forum in the near future.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:20 AM
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Hey, Dana,

Just finished doing my clutch back in Feb this year. The slave cyl leaked and trashed the clutch plate. Took about 6 Saturdays (my first time).

You can save a lot of time and aggravation by removing the entire rear frame assy from the bike (swing arm, rear wheel, frame and all, in one piece).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PdVvxMwz_A

I disassembled mine and reassembly was time-consuming.

An old scissor-jack worked really well as a support on the lift, and the lift is a REAL BACK SAVER.

For a replacement clutch disc, I went with the Siebenrock Basic Plus el cheapo for $104 - NOT "oil proof" clutch, from BBY. And I drilled the weep hole eliminating the need for the $295 oil-proof plate.

New Siebenrock Basic Plus Plate For All R1150 & R1100S Bikes

I got the spacer but it does not fit the Siebenrock. Different rivet hole circumference. There is an old VW clutch for like $80

Only 15K miles on the rest of the clutch parts so they were pristine except covered in oil. MARK THE CLUTCH HOUSING, PRESSURE PLATE, AND HOUSING COVER WITH A CENTER-PUNCH OR FILE BEFORE DISASSEMBLY. Paint wipes right off. AMHIK. Did not have to remove the pressure plate from the crank shaft. Did not need special tools, but had to use some creativity.

You will need torque wrenches, allen wrenches, sockets and extensions, dikes for all the cable ties and a camera. TAKE PLENTY OF PICS - YOU WILL NEED THEM.

Good time to swap out the OEM brake lines too. They DO fail on most bikes this age. Spiegler makes excellent kits (Amazon $200)

The HES is a known time bomb. GSAddict will rebuild yours for $110 plus $15 postage. Perfect time to do it, too.

Ugly. Looks like a super model torn in half by a crocodile.







More pics here: https://photos.google.com/u/1/share/AF1QipML6ITqR378NDxroxQhnU-UEdOe6V3tEZgS_fe_5qC_epdWDdjygqHX7jPsx4Y_uQ?key=OV ZXalc1N3hYQmhQOEhzcGNZTlI2R0xGc1gzT25R

Be ready for $urpri$e$, too!!

If I can help, please let me know.
Old 04-18-2017, 06:01 AM
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