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Twin Thumper, IYKWIM
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
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Heat-related shifting problems

Hey, so, I did some research on related threads, but am not finding anyone who's had the same issues I have. They are twofold, but #2 is the major one.

Assuming freeway riding in moderate temps, anything over 25 miles:

1. On downshift, the lever is heavy/sticky. Can't just click down through the gears, have to lift up the lever between each shift, otherwise it won't re-center itself, and won't allow me to kick down. Annoying, but at least easily overcome.

2. Once I've gotten down to 1st gear, upshifting past 2nd is almost impossible. Trying to kick up to third, it'll just whiff. If I'm lucky, I can slam back down to 1st, and slam back up to 2nd, and then 3rd becomes an option again; but sometimes that doesn't work. Sometimes I can just leave it in second, rev high, do a little peaky/jerky back and forth on the throttle, and the trans will somehow shake itself out of whatever problem it's having, and suddenly an upshift is possible again. Never a problem in higher gears, always just upshifting from 2nd to 3rd, and only when the motor is hot, been riding a while.

I refreshed the gear oil with BMW branded fully-synthetic 85w140, and the old stuff looked fresh when I drained it. Though, there were kind of a lot of metal shavings on the magnetic drain plug. Anyway, fresh oil didn't improve anything, downshift or up.

Thoughts?
Old 07-29-2017, 12:13 PM
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Two thoughts. First, are you wearing new boots?

Second, check all the linkages between your foot and the transmission. Make sure everything is functional and lubricated.
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Jim Moore
Jax, FL
'01 R1100S
'07 CBR600RR
Old 07-29-2017, 12:31 PM
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Twin Thumper, IYKWIM
 
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Haha, nope, it happens regardless of footwear. And it's happened the entire time I've owned the bike, from 65k miles to current 87k miles.

I recently had the bike apart, and lubed the splines on the clutch disc, input shaft, driveshaft, final drive, etc. Didn't see any way to lube anything but the splines on the shift input, where the L-bracket bolts on. I can try greasing the linkage that comes off the pedal, but it rotated super freely when I took the pedal off the bike.

Really feels like something inside the gearbox, since wiggling the shift lever doesn't resolve the upshift problem.
Old 07-29-2017, 04:24 PM
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"there were kind of a lot of metal shavings on the magnetic drain plug."
eBay. Second hand box from a trusted source.
A weekend with the spanners is the cure sorry to suggest.
Old 07-29-2017, 05:43 PM
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Brent
 
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verify the hydralic systems of the clutch are sorted eg no air in the system or water
so you know the clutch is releasing,
otherwise time to take it apart replace the worn shift forks and maybe selection drum.
Old 07-29-2017, 06:42 PM
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Twin Thumper, IYKWIM
 
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Alfa: I ask the questions because money is not a resource I have available to throw at the problem. A black-box tranny in my price range would certainly be in worse shape than the one I have. If someone has the experience and knowledge here, I'm grateful. And more than willing to crack my own tranny case to fix it. If need be.

Brent: if the clutch weren't fully engaging, that would make shifting *difficult*, but it would still happen. I'd be able to rev-match and clutchless upshift. This isn't that. I kick from 1st to 2nd, and then kicking upward "whiffs," as if I'm already in 6th and there are no more gears to go to.
Old 07-29-2017, 08:50 PM
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I think you're gonna find that replacing internal transmission parts quickly adds up to as much or more than anything on eBay. I would at least check eBay daily. Eventually a reasonably-priced R1100S transmission will pop up.
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Jim Moore
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Old 07-30-2017, 01:05 AM
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Fair enough Jim. I was thinking more about the time the bike would be off the road for.
Actually my 1100S is laid up this summer due to no budget to fix it. Luckily I have a couple more that work great.
From your discription of symptoms together with the metal shavings it has to be the box?
Its good that you have the spanner skills to open the box up. Best of luck with it all.
Old 07-30-2017, 01:53 AM
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Brent
 
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perhaps, will it do it on the center stand or only on the road.
if it is ok on the centerstand still could be clutch
it is probably wornn internals,
I think I have a parts one I stole the input shaft from if you just want
the drum and forks, they may be the same as the other bmw 6 speeds.
which would make donnors much more common
they are fairly easy to take apart and a pretty basic device.
you will want a good heat gun that you can turn the temp down on.
Old 07-30-2017, 08:48 AM
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this typa shyt was why i sold my buell. fortunately the S has a separate transmission which you can disassemble without splitting your engine cases. german engineering comes through for once!
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkonaut View Post
this typa shyt was why i sold my buell.
But I loved my Buells!
Old 07-30-2017, 04:41 PM
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I have a very nice 11k 2004 transmission! $700
Old 07-30-2017, 08:35 PM
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Twin Thumper, IYKWIM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brentw1 View Post
perhaps, will it do it on the center stand or only on the road.
if it is ok on the centerstand still could be clutch
it is probably wornn internals,
I think I have a parts one I stole the input shaft from if you just want
the drum and forks, they may be the same as the other bmw 6 speeds.
which would make donnors much more common
they are fairly easy to take apart and a pretty basic device.
you will want a good heat gun that you can turn the temp down on.
I can't think of a way to reproduce the issue on the center stand without idling the engine to death. Time and RPMs and load are hard to reproduce while stationary. But yeah, I may hit you up for those leftover internals. Thanks!
Old 07-30-2017, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brentw1 View Post
they are fairly easy to take apart and a pretty basic device.
Man, I'd hate to see what you call a complex device.
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Jim Moore
Jax, FL
'01 R1100S
'07 CBR600RR
Old 07-31-2017, 02:42 AM
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Brent
 
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most of the electronics I design
old stye automatic transmissions, without electronic switches,
jet engines,
Old 07-31-2017, 05:50 AM
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramjet looks pretty simple to me

sirius, i loved mine too, but ain't nobody got time to open an engine to fix shift forks at 4k miles!
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:25 AM
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Twin Thumper, IYKWIM
 
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Reviving this old thread to say, I may have resolved the issue, thanks to some guidance from tjs.

Turns out, BMW redesigned some aspects of the trans partway through the model run, resulting in an “EVO” version of the 'box. Among the numerous changes, the shift shaft has a different cutout profile in the ratchet mechanism which (I’m guessing) helps deal with difficulties arising from heat expansion.



Anyway, I found an EVO shift shaft at beemer shop, not five blocks from my house, for a hundred bucks. Pulled apart the bike, replaced the shaft, and when I torqued the trans housing back together, the shifter was already binding. Was doing that before I took it apart, too, so that might’ve been part of my larger problem. So I ordered a new shift shaft shim, which is 0.2mm thinner than the one that was in there. Torque the case back together, and shifting action feels like a dream.

Bike is all back together now, I’ve put a few hundred miles on it, and problem #1 seems to be gone. I’m not entirely sure about problem #2, as I’ve felt it happen once or twice. Flip side is, my muscle memory keeps my foot doing weird things that were meant to combat those problems, so perhaps if I can re-train my foot, all will be well. We shall see.
Old 05-15-2018, 12:47 AM
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