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Last week when I replaced the rear tire, I noticed a very slight play in the rear wheel. 9-3 o'clock only. I looked up the maintenance schedule on my Repair CD and it says, check play and adjust if necessary every 12,000 miles.

So I headed to the dealer for their opinion. They agreed that there was play and at 25,000 miles I should have the bearings replaced. Since I am still under warranty I said Ok. We set up a time then they said the bill would be about $300. What? They pulled out their maintenance schedule and it says, check play in Telelever, wheel and swingarm bearings, renew if necessary every 12,000. Then down below it says(replace wheel and swing arm bearings every 25,000 miles).

Seems BMW changed and now thinks of the pivot bearings as a wear items. I said thanks for the $300 offer then bought the bearings for $60 and headed home.

The replacement went OK and I indexed the u-joint with a marker to the reardrive then marked the rear wheel flange to the housing. I left the trans in first so I figure at worst I am only off one spline of the drive shaft when I mounted the u-joint.

The pivot bearings had never been loose before and the play at this time was slight. When I inspected them the right(outside) bearing looked fine with discoloration but the left(inside) bearing had dents in the race.

I would suggest having new bearings before opening up this area.

RB

Old 04-16-2003, 01:09 PM
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OK, in your case, it's pretty clear that it was the pivot bearings, since you saw them dented. Of course, you had to disassemble to find out.

The point I'm gradually leading up to, is that not all rear wheel play is in the pivot bearings. In fact, I ended up not appearing to have any there, but plenty in the actual main carrier bearing in the rear drive.
A new shim and it was good to go. Bearing was fine.

Anyway, I'm just suggesting that before charging in, you figure out if the play is in the pivot or the drive. Most seem to be the pivot, but mine was definitely not. It can't be that rare, because the local dealer's head mech challenged my assertion right away, making sure I was steering both of us in the wrong direction. Turned out he was very right to do so. I'm just passing that along

roger
very tight rear drive
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Old 04-16-2003, 02:59 PM
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RB did you notice any "factory" index marks on the driveshaft or u-joint?

I believe that the U-joint indexing issue becomes moot when the short shock/short arm combination are used (sport length) - the u-joints should be closer to 0deg inclination in that case. Can anyone confirm this? Or does it just overshoot the angle in the other direction when loaded?

I think I am going to try the short shock/short arm combination to straighten the u-joint angle. (I am currently running the long/long setup.) What are the other (handling) implications of going to that setup?

Dave
Old 04-17-2003, 07:17 AM
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The short shock short arm combo looks great sitting there on the stand, but loads the Ujoints more heaviy at full compression. Robs peter to pay paul. My concern with that has always been, that if I have to choose whether my angle is more severe at full extension or full compression, then I'll choose full extension, when the suspension is less weighted. Never made sense to me to choose the heaviest Ujoint and heaviest bike/suspension loading to correrspond. Just food for thought.
A lot of people have had no problem. I'd bet dollars to donuts that a long term study would prove them wrong. There are just not enough hard ridden, high mileage, short/short Ss out there yet. You can get a lesson from a very large data set of airheads, especially GS though. The late ones have a very similar suspension setup. Specifically, their relatively short paralevers/swingarm ratios, when coupled with sagged out rear shocks (which are rampant) very closely simulate the short/short combo. These guy eat Ujoints and driveshafts. Talk to any dealer that does a relativey large percentage of their sales in GS (such a my local TX dealer, or the one up in FtWorth) and they'll tell you the same. Also, note the large airhead paralever model driveshaft repair aftermarket (MCN recently even did an article). Or talk to most any small independent shop that does BMW repair.

The data for a very similar, _probably_ very applicable scenario/configuration is there. We just can't prove it on an S.

that's my 3 cents anyway
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Old 04-17-2003, 08:35 AM
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OK you need some data.............I'm running shortest arm with non adjustable length Ohlins.......240lb rider I ride hard and with a few track days tossed in. 31,000mi on bike and about 18,000 mi. with this setup. No u joint problems ...........
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:44 AM
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Hi Joe,

Thanks for the info, seriously. My point is, we have probably less than 10 datapoints collectively. I have more than that just with bikes I work on on the very analogous airhead setup, and collectively, there are thousands. No one is saying it's going to blow up on you. I'm just saying it's easy to see what is harder on the bike. Whatever that is, it will fail more often than the easier setup.

Btw, what rear spring are you running, and how many turns of preload?

thanks
roger
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:38 AM
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More data

Roger,
Just another possible area for play to develop in the rear end.
I have replaced my pivot bearings at 60,000km about 3 months ago and done about 10,000km since. Prior to that, I had cleaned and re-preloaded them which probably only lasted about 1,000km roughly. While performing a service on the thing over the weekend I gave the rear wheel a feel, and WTF? There was play there accompanied by a fairly loud "crack" noise. OK I thought, the bearings have just settled and need another tweak, so out with the tension wrench and reset the preload. No, the play is still there, and after some difficulty isolating the movement, I discovered that the spigot on the fixed side pin was worn and allowing the bearing to walk from side to side on it. There is only about a 5 thou step in the pin, but it compounds by the time it gets to the wheel. So it looks like a new pin is in order. Can't wait to see how much BMW wants for one of them, the bearings cost me $180Aust.
On the other topic of discussion, I have short (365mm) arm and Std length (Bitubo) shocks with no driveshaft problems so far.
My bike has 70,000km on it and probably about 30,000 of them are with this combo.

M Motor
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Old 04-19-2003, 01:21 AM
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While gassing it out of turns, my S has developed what feels to be an underinflated rear tire. The pressure is 39.5psi so something else is culpable. Whilst on the centerstand, I grab the rear tire at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock and give it a wiggle. There is the slightest "tic toc" noise. Same noise at 12 and 6. The noise is so slight that I can't definitively locate the source.

I read my manual and consulted my pelican friends (youz bumz) for probable causes and here I am at this thread which, by the way, is quite confusing because there are several maintenance procedures being discussed simultaneously. They are:

1. Proper torquing of the, in correct BMW parlance, "Swinging-arm floating-bearing stud bolt". This is the 30mm and 12mm allen dealie on the inboard side of the paralever. On my S, there seems to be no play between the "swinging-arm" and "rear-wheel drive". Worn or loose bearings bearings at this connection would manifest themselves as play between these two members, No?

2. Proper shimming of the "crown wheel bearings" which are inside the "rear-wheel drive". This seems to me to be the more likely suspect for this kind of play. According to the manual, proper shimming of these bearings seems to require about a thousand dollars of BMW offical special tools, so I guess it's off to the dealer. Has anyone successfully performed this adjustment without the manual suggested tools? If so, please post. If it was discussed prior in this thread, a more clear reiteration would help.

I'm really suprised that such a tiny amount of wheel play that I'm able to detect has this much of a negative effect on handling. Is there something else I should consider?
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:33 PM
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Paul,
If your play is that hard to locate, I'd say that it isn't your problem.
Get another person to help you by wiggling the wheel, and feel between the various areas to see if you can nail it down.
I would concider a bit more rebound damping on the rear shock. Is is possible that the shock is a little tired, seeing it is a few years old?

M Motor
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Old 04-25-2003, 09:46 PM
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Paul,

I agree with Micky. My rear play was pretty large, and didn't cause much handling funkiness. Look at the shock.
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Old 04-26-2003, 07:15 AM
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Same here I'm waiting for a shop apt. and still riding hard on a lose hub bearing hardly noticeable.
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Old 04-26-2003, 12:20 PM
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Thanks for the pointers fellas. Cranked up the rear shock rebound damping to max and the spring preload to about 2/3 max and the underinflated rear tire symptom powering out of turns is gone. Weird how a wimpy shock can give a squishy side to side feel. But, in hind sight, when the bike is heeled over an under damped shock's up and down motion, relative to the bike, could be perceived as side to side squiggle. Any how, time for new shocks... and the Ohlins group buy deadline long expired. Ah well.
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Old 04-28-2003, 10:49 PM
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Replaced the pivot bearings in the brother-in-laws S last week. At 39,000 miles they had been adjusted 2 or 3 times. The last time I noticed rust on the adjustable stud when we pulled it out. There wasn't any play but the rust was the reason for the replacement.

When we opened it up the outboard side was a mess. The grease was gone and the rollers were now oval with flat spots where they had been sliding, not rolling. The increased friction caused the inner race to rotate on the fixed stud wearing a 0.1 mm groove in it.


Chilled the bearings, the heat gun worked great and also the little bearing install tool we made up. I hate pounding bearing in so this squeezed them in as you tighten the wingnuts.


Since this was my second time in a month it only took about two hours. A second person helps too.

RB
Old 04-30-2003, 03:54 PM
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RB Good job on the bearing race tool.
Paul W. What you have is no compresion dampening, the centrifical force of the turn compresses the rear suspention giving you the ugly combo of too much trail (in your steering geometry) and changing trail as the rear end moves up & down. If you can't spring for the Ohlins buy a used set of the "Sport Shocks from someone here that has upgraded. Do you have a GS Link? That reduces the steering geometrys "trail" and would also help.
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Old 04-30-2003, 04:34 PM
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You're starting to scare me again Roger...talking about short paralevers and pressure on the driveline and all.
There was some discussion about all this in a previous thread.
The issue never really came to resolve from my dense viewpoint.
I have a GS arm waiting on my bench, but I am reticent to install it.
I don't want the longevity/reliability factor of my BMW to go in the terlit because I wanted to just have a little fun...
worry worry worry...
2001 R1100SA
Currently:
front shock-stock length
rear shock-stock + about 6mm higher (whatever that comes out to measurement-wise).
Stock paralever
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:51 AM
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Jeez, I"m not trying to scare anyone. I'm a little cautious and due believe there is slightly increased longterm wear, but it's NO big deal.
Some bikes will last longer than others anyway. A bike ridden by heavier guy will last a bit less. So will one that is ran much harder. Or idled a lot more. I really wouldn't worry. It's just one of many factors. An are that's harder on joints at one angle is easier at others. Dave gave a pretty good explanation a while back. A far bigger danger than any arm/shock combination is just plain old clapped out (poorly damping) shocks or very sagged springs. Not to worry. Enjoy.

roger
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Old 05-02-2003, 09:22 AM
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Well, I thought my tire was getting old but it looks like I have some play in my fixed pivot pin at the final drive. I'm going to try to tighten it up this w/e I suppose. I guess I should be thinking about grabbing the bearings too @ 30k miles, esp. before VT MOA since I'm going to be in there anyway.

I really feel this job should be down with a proper 30mm crows foot and a 12mm allen socket, but man, it's hard to find the crow in that size! Found a whole metric set online for $90! The 12mm allen should be fairly easy to get, maybe even Sears has it.

I also think my u-joints might already be out-of-phase ... does anyone have a picture (or diagram) of what the ends should look like? I think I understand the position, but it couldn't hurt for a visual.
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Last edited by ErricZ; 07-07-2006 at 06:15 PM..
Old 07-07-2006, 06:12 PM
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The parts diagram shows the drive shaft to be in-phase with its self whereas the service manual shows it 90-degrees out-of-phase. I'm going with the parts fiche unless someone like Bobby sez differently.
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Old 07-08-2006, 02:13 PM
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I have no idea which is right, but having dealt with a bunch of docs over the years, and with no other specific knowledge, and all other things beging equal, and blah, and blah, and blah:
I'd take the service manual hands down over the parts diagram.
That will not always be the correct choice, but it will be correct more often than the converse. Again, I'm not sure in this case either.
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Old 07-08-2006, 05:04 PM
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LOL, that was the exact discussion I had with Bobby, Wswartzel, Flattbutt, my other buddy and myself. In the end, Bill won out (and technically, as such, the parts fiche!) -- }---{ -- is how it ended up. The PDF shows 90-degrees, maybe, but it's sort of an isometric drawing anyways.

The inner bearings were rusted to hell ... the one one the right side was frozen to the Ti fixed-pivot pin ... left one was loose. Decided it was a good idea to just replace both sides and be done with it for another 30k.

Sucks paying $35 a bearing for something that small. I'll have to hit up the place we have locally next time -- in advance, of course.

Firmed everything up and now it doesn't feel like the rear end is coming around anymore. Sweet fix!

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Old 07-08-2006, 08:49 PM
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