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sprockets in the mail. should be 3 to 5 days
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1998 R1100S Yellow is the best (now departed from my life)
Old 06-01-2018, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
Tm, One thing that would do is allow you to measure the timing and width of the combustion pressure peak which is much different in shape and well after TDC. In other words youíd get a close look at how the sprockets affected actual combustion.
Sounds interesting, but I don't have the required pressure sensor equipment to do that type of pressure testing and I also can't find any info on anyone ever doing this other than the engine manufacturers.

The testing I have in progress is my limit and I'm sure I can get what I need from this.
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(R12, R11, R1) + 00 then S, S, /7
Old 06-01-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by lennie View Post
sprockets in the mail. should be 3 to 5 days
Thanks. Sent an email about the PayPal issue. Let me know.
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Last edited by tm1100s; 06-01-2018 at 07:10 AM..
Old 06-01-2018, 07:03 AM
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don't worry about the paypal as not an issue.
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1998 R1100S Yellow is the best (now departed from my life)
Old 06-02-2018, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
Tm, One thing that would do is allow you to measure the timing and width of the combustion pressure peak which is much different in shape and well after TDC. In other words youíd get a close look at how the sprockets affected actual combustion.
What pressure range would you think we're working in with an active cylinder? I couldn't find any reliable info on this but it might be worth investing in a sensor capable of that range and heat. The running compression test without combustion do wel with a 300-500psi sensor. The pressure capacity is easy. It's the heat that makes it difficult.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:48 PM
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I've added the waveform data for the R1100S to the R1200S data in the post up above but not labelled in detail. I'll make another pre-sprocket attempt before changing those sprockets looking for better results, if possible. I'm aiming for a sprocket change and after-sprocket results on the R1100S this weekend. I'll also find a way to add the actual Pico data file for download just so anyone who wants to download the software (free) and make measurements of their own on the opening and closing of valves in degrees can do so.
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:05 PM
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Good luck. Really interested to see the results.
Old 06-22-2018, 04:08 AM
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Needed a common reference for noting the difference between the before and after Lennie's sprocket installs so I've used what appears to be the Exhaust Valve Opening (EVO) as a degree reference point for this.


PS: added data file links to other post.
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Last edited by tm1100s; 06-24-2018 at 07:34 AM.. Reason: added data file links
Old 06-23-2018, 02:17 PM
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Got the left side sprocket installed, the right side should be quick. This one took all day because I decided to make a tool to hold the cam sprocket while loosening and tightening. I assumed the 4 holes around the sprocket were symmetrical. They're not. I also assumed those four holes in the new sprocket were the same size as in the old sprocket. Also not. The tool was a bust.

Checked the valve timing using the exhaust valve opening degrees after TDC for before and after measurements and got the required advancement.
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:40 PM
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Before and after sprocket installation compression waveforms.

I did expect to see more of a difference in the data considering the change in performance, but these were taken very close to idle to be able to see a difference in the cam timing. They didn't turn out as detailed as I'd hoped compared to auto engines but there are some physical differences like exhaust back pressure and really no intake manifold to hold pressures constant, I'm guessing. But you can see a difference in the advanced exhaust valve opening. Of course, the entire operation is advanced but I picked the EVO event as a common point between pics. The red circle on the one pic is at 180 degrees crankshaft rotation from TDC Power Stroke, the piston is at BDC power to exhaust stroke and you can see the curve shifted to the left (earlier or advanced) between the pics. Although the sprockets are 9 degrees advanced, the measurement cursors are showing about 6.5 degrees due to my eyeballing and estimating the EVO event. Haven't figured out how to measure that exactly accurately. I'll post the Pico files so anyone can play with those. The boxes are indication degrees and time past TDC of the cursor just left of the BDC Phase ruler. I'm hoping to have the R1200 sprocket in this week.




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Last edited by tm1100s; 07-14-2018 at 10:20 AM..
Old 07-14-2018, 10:12 AM
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Thanks. Data is always helpful to discussions about which performance mods do and don’t actually do what they claim and can serve as one measure of how much change there has been. Can you estimate the magnitude of the compression peak and can you measure IVO?
Old 07-15-2018, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
Thanks. Data is always helpful to discussions about which performance mods do and donít actually do what they claim and can serve as one measure of how much change there has been. Can you estimate the magnitude of the compression peak and can you measure IVO?
Compression peaks hover around 100psi and vary a bit depending on RPM. I try to get as close to idle as possible for the captures but it's difficult to get these things to idle at all on only one cylinder. Waveforms have more detail taken with the throttle body valve at it's minimum position. Also, we're measuring pressures and unlike a car these things have virtually no intake manifold to hold or buffer pressures between the butterfly and valve. Also, regardless of exhaust system configuration, the systems seem to be more free-flowing than cars which flattens out that part of the curve.

IVO would be a best guess. I labelled that first waveform from the pre-install with my best guesses for events. These waveforms turned out kind of flat compared auto engines that have more well defined events. On these waveforms it's difficult to pick out the IVO, overlap and EVC so you would need to pick a feature common to both before and after shots and measure from there. I'll put the actual post install file for the BCR in here later. I'm trying to keep the pics uncluttered but with the files and the Pico program there's a lot of options for display, measurement and filtering.

Overall, the post waveform seems a bit flatter than the pre install. I'm thinking that maybe this shows the sprockets give a more efficient throughput or better flow through the cylinders (VE). But Lennie would be better to explain this, AND, it might be bias on my part trying to justify the noticeably smoother engine operation.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:50 AM
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Iím a big advocate of lambda-shifting and have written a lot about it. There are many measurable benefits, including a solid boost in torque between 1000 and 4000 RPM (reduced exhaust temperature and a smoother engine).

On the R1150 and R1100S models (without idle steppers like the R1200s), assuming that a bike is well tuned and lambda is shifted from 1.00 (stock narrowband sensor) to 0.92 (8% more fuel), there is a measureable increase in idle speed from the increased torque. Usually, we see idle speeds increase from 1100 to 1200 RPM.

Since your measurements so far donít show anything specific (I did see the flatter plot after compression cycle), assuming there is an increase in low torque from the sprockets, did your idle rpm increase after you installed them and did you have to adjust the idle speed downward?
Old 07-16-2018, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
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....

Since your measurements so far donít show anything specific (I did see the flatter plot after compression cycle), assuming there is an increase in low torque from the sprockets, did your idle rpm increase after you installed them and did you have to adjust the idle speed downward?
If there was an RPM increase then is was small and not noticeable but what was noticeable was the smoother operation.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:21 AM
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I've installed Lennie's sprockets in the R1200S yesterday and put a couple hundred miles on it today. Very nice in the low and midrange. It seems in the seat of the pants that there's more of an effect in the top end with the R1200S than the R1100S but higher speeds are necessary to confirm and it surely won't affect my normal riding.

I'll do the pressure waveforms this week and post. Below is the original 'before' waveform marked up a bit with the actual valve opening and closing degrees measured before the sprocket install. The faint horizontal line just below the 'Zero Pressure Line' text is exactly that. Positive cylinder pressure above that line and vacuum below that line. The valve opening and closing were all measured at .010" lift and an average of several readings due to my variable technique. Degree readings might be changed a few degrees measured at lift but it is the same across the readings, at least. I'll do these for the R1100S before and after for a better comparison using actual valve timing data.

Red for exhaust valves, Green for intake valves and purple for the Zero Pressure Line. The degree numbers in the boxes are degrees of the cursors from 0 - 720 and re-calculated from TDC or BDC for that stroke.

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Last edited by tm1100s; 08-05-2018 at 07:42 AM..
Old 08-04-2018, 09:32 PM
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