Green chunky bits in oil Filter

[Turd]

After 5,000 kilometers I changed the oil and filter in my 2001, 70,150 km. Boxster S today only to find, for the first time, small green chunks of plastic or fiborous material in the filter. I would say there was about a spoonful of this stuff. I'll try to attach a photo. Any thoughts on what is being torn apart in there? I am almost thinking, based on the material that it could be part of the old filter itself coming off and going through the engine.

Unless I hear otherwise in a reply I think I will drive it for a couple hundred kilometers and change the oil again and see if I get more chunks.

[feelyx]

Only thing I can think of is a piece of broken spark plug tube finally found its way to the timing chain.

[Miguel Antonett]

Definitely NOT from a spark plug ceramic, spark plugs stuff will find the way out though the exhaust not the oil path.

I would have the material evaluated by a Porsche knowledgable person before doing anything else; however, if "soft,spongy, fibrous" - as it appears - it is probably friendly...

What about the RMS / IMS condition?

[feelyx]

Originally Posted by Miguel Antonett

Definitely NOT from a spark plug ceramic, spark plugs stuff will find the way out though the exhaust not the oil path.

I would have the material evaluated by a Porsche knowledgable person before doing anything else; however, if "soft,spongy, fibrous" - as it appears - it is probably friendly...

What about the RMS / IMS condition?

You are absolutely right.... its NOT a sparkplug insulator... But could be a spark plug tube....
Pelican Parts - Product Information: 996-105-325-52-M36
I agree find someone that knows the interior of these engines... like find someone who has an engine scattered all over their workbench and can search through the pieces for a match...maybe?

[Turd]

A mechanic at my work has suggested, based on handling the "bits", that since it appears to be very hard rubber that it's likely a seal at a valve. He asked if I have had the odd puff of blue smoke. Oddly, lately I have had the odd puff of blue smoke upon start up, but infrequently. His impression is that it shouldn't cause damage to my engine but I would get the embarrassing blue cloud once in awhile.

His impression is that it would not be part of any bearing assembly. So maybe I roll the dice and keep on driving! For the record he has never been inside a Boxster Engine.

Does anyone know if the valve seals are green rubber?

I'll pass along either the happy or sad resolution to this predicament.

Ken, owner of Turd, the blue smoking Macadamia Mettalic Brown 2001 Boxster S.

[tonythetarga]

I think you found the culprit!

Porsche Boxster Cylinders Heads & Valves - Page 1

[Turd]

Wholly, Tonythetarga! Thanks for the research into the photo! That valve stem seal is the exact colour of my debris! Good detective work! Perhaps there is a future for you in PSI, Porsche Scene Investigation......

You're right, that would be the culprit. Looks like I captured the crumbled equivalent of one of them! Anyone got any suggestions of what damage I could cause by continuing to run the car? It's more than likely that I have been running for some time with the valve stem seal floating around in my engine.

I'm inclined to run it until I have another reason the pull the engine. The way turd has been behaving the past 10,000 km. it won't be long.

Thanks again Tonythetarga, Feelyx and Miguel.

[tonythetarga]

Your mechanic friend had the idea, I just looked up the part on Pelican. Bingo! a match!

BTW, I've been up your way on the Island...a friend of mine has done a few murals in Chemainus.

[The Radium King]

dark green would indicate your tensioner paddles, howver note that there is a light green seal associated with it.

Porsche Boxster Cam Towers & Timing Chains - Page 1

given that this is a more typical wear item on the boxster i would suggest looking here before valves.

rattle at start up, or big time cam deviation on the durametric - tensioners.
low compression - valves.

dunno who you are using, but if it is european specialty they don't even have a durametric or pst tool (or didn't last time i checked). further, most of their experience is with air-cooled porsches so they would defer to that experience (ie, look to valves as the issue) instead of the common failure points in the m96 engine.

ps, i've read someplace in the internet that porshe uses a sealant of a similar colour, and that sometimes it shows up in the filter.

[Turd]

Just when I thought I might be "out of the woods" along came Radium King's theory! Yup, I periodically have a very brief rattle at start up. I have had two engine light warnings in July about exceeding upper limit on vario cam at high rpm. I've since been driving below 3500 rpm and have not had the engine light in 500 kilometers of driving. I was thinking it was the vario cam solenoid for bank 1 to 3.

I suspect if its the tensioner paddles I gather I should get at them before I do much more driving?

Sounds like this engine is coming out before the summer is over......:-(

By the way, Tonythetarga, next time you are in Chemainus look me up. I live 10 minutes away from the murals. The salmon here are always biting and the crabs and shrimp are plentiful. Which Murals did he/she paint?

[Wayne 962]

It indeed might be wise to figure out where this is coming from by opening up the engine. The good news is that you can get at the valve seals and the tensioner pads pretty easily with the engine out of the car. It's relatively minor surgery.

-Wayne

[Miguel Antonett]

FYI. There is another thread on going concurrently regarding exactly the same issue - even the color of the "stuff".

[Turd]

Thanks Miguel, I think I resurrected that thread from the depths of 2011 yesterday when I asked him if he ever determined where the little greenies came from. Wayne's got the right idea. Someone is just going to have to tear down one of these bad boys and see where the greenies are coming from....any volunteers!???

I can change brakes on a good day. Even replaced both axles this year. Pull the engine and tear it down.... It's likely a one way trip for my engine! I recall doing something similar in 2004 with my westphalia pancake engine only to watch it being towed off to the volkswagen dealer 4 months later to be put back together in a manner where it would both start and not leak oil like a sieve. It was not a day of pride for me. Not to be put off, I'll probably have a crack at my engine this winter (if it will wait). I am itching to see what's going on inside. I'll probably have to fly all you guys up to Canada to help me get it back together! There will continue to be a well worn trail between Pelican Parts warehouse and my gargage.

By the way anybody else out there with a wife who thinks their husband is currently spending more time with their boxter/cayman than their wife?!

[Mike Petersen]

A year ago I discovered the exact same 'greenies' in my oil filter. About the same time my 01 Boxster S has also been suffering from 2 problems:
1) More occasional blue smoke on startup.
2) VarioCam stopped working.
Thus, the greenies could be related to either the valve seals or the Variocam tensioner. Good news. I've just pulled the engine and 90% through engine teardown. I'll post pictures and more info shortly once I uncover the root cause.

[Mike Petersen]

BTW, Jake Raby of flat 6 innovations seems certain it is from inside the vario-cam chain adjuster. I have no reason to doubt him, but until I confirm I need new $1000 adjusters (per side) im not willing to cut mine in half to confirm his claim ;-)

link here --> Found this in the Oil Filter - Page 2 - 986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster Owners and Others

[Turd]

Originally Posted by Mike Petersen

A year ago I discovered the exact same 'greenies' in my oil filter. About the same time my 01 Boxster S has also been suffering from 2 problems:
1) More occasional blue smoke on startup.
2) VarioCam stopped working.
Thus, the greenies could be related to either the valve seals or the Variocam tensioner. Good news. I've just pulled the engine and 90% through engine teardown. I'll post pictures and more info shortly once I uncover the root cause.

Excellent! So glad somebody has taken on the search for the source of the greenies! I still have "Turd" my 2001 Boxster S. I get the 1 in 50 blue smoke start, usually only if there is an audience..... for my entire time of owning Turd I have the brief "death rattle" at start up. That's been about 7 years and 40,000 kilometers. Maybe that's a result of a wounded vario cam tensioner?!. I have been changing the oil and filter about every 5000 kilometres and I am considering every 3000 kilometers or 6 months to decrease any IMS surprises.

We're all looking forward to your findings and pictures. Thanks for sharing.

[Cajundaddy]

Worn chain tensioner is what has been described before for this debris in the filter of a 986/996. You have quite a bit that is also likely clogging your oil pickup so time to drop the pan and have a good look around.

[Mike Petersen]

I've done the teardown on the 70k 01 Boxster S. Overall, engine looks great, much better than I expected. Here is what I know with respect to the 'greenies'.

1) I went through the entire engine and there are no missing or damaged seals. In fact there are no seals with this same color of green. I thought it might be a damaged seal under the wear pad of the Variocam hydraulic actuator. But, no, thats not it. (pic attached).

2) I DID FIND a small part of the dreaded greenies floating inside of the hydraulic actuator control shaft. (picture attached). It was floating freely and appears that it did not come from the actuator shaft but instead was carried there by oil. Ironically, I could find one other picture online from a person in Canada who discovered the same thing. (see attached pic that is actually a screen grab). I could not find any other greenies anywhere else in the engine. Given thee few datapoints, one could conclude that there is a strong likelihood these came from the Variocam actuator piston and floated into the actuator shaft and became lodged.

3) I tested both of the electric solenoids. Both showed 13.0 / 13.1 Ohms @ 0 volts. When activated by battery both functioned properly and appeared "very firm" in there force. I estimated the force pressure/resistance to be ~ 5-10lbs (just a rough estimate).

4) Prior to disassembly, the car clearly had a change in driving behavior the ~3500 rpm range. It happened at the same general time I discovered the greenies in the filter. The problem also seemed to get progressively worse over time. The local Porsche shop in Minneapolis (Imola Motorsports) confirmed that neither bank was responding when they activated the variocam with the computer.

With all of this, one could logically conclude there is an issue a green seals from inside the variocam disintegrating over time, and working their way into the rest of the oil system. Such a scenario would totally support my experience, research and online research of others.

On the other hand... the gaps (tolerances) of the hydraulic actuator seem reasonably tight and would could argue the no seals are even required inside the actuator; there is a constant flow of fresh oil and high pressure. Whey did Porsche build it this way???

Net net: Im ordering new L & R actuators assemblies and biting the $2k bullet.

Coming soon... im bringing the disassembled block, heads, crank, cylinders to the local and respected hi-perf machine shop for a cleaning, valve grind, Magnaflux, wear measurement, etc. Im going to have them cut in half the old actuator to see what we can learn. Keep in mind, if the seals have failed they could all be flushed out already and we learn nothing and the mystery will continue.

Will keep you folks abreast as a learn more.

[Mike Petersen]

Should have added to my prior post.

1) Some suggested the greenies could be valve seals. They are not. My valve seals are black and are not damaged (leaking maybe, but not coming apart).

2) Some have suggested driving the far with damaged actuators could damage the engine. It will not damage the engine. It wont perform as well, but it will not harm anything. Valves and piston cannot intersect due to a broken actuator.

3) This COULD contribute to the death rattle at startup, but rather unlikely. My actuator chain guides shown normal wear and clearly need to be replaced. These can be replaced independent of the actuator assemble, but you have to remove the actuator to install them. Yes this means removing the cams and most likely removing the engine. I've seen posts of people doing this with the engine in the car, but once you are doing this much work it may be easier just to pull the engine for good access and a better overall reassembly. There is a spring in the actuator but the hydraulic fluid should also increase the forces and in turn increase the chain tension. Thus with damaged "greenie" seals the tension forces could be less creating some increased chain rattle at startup.

4) I believe my occasional blue smoke is either a weakening air-oil-seperator or aging valve seals. Im replacing both...

In the end im doing a full rebuild so I expect that it will fix all my small issues with a 16 year old car, and I wont be able to root cause some of my issues (smoke, chain rattle, valve timing). Updates will include:

- New seals throughout, including valve seals.
- New Variocam actuators L & R.
- Valve Job (independent machine shop)
- New L&N dual row IMS bearing. (old original bearing looked great BTW, but I have not torn it apeart)
- New Piston rings
- New chain guides
- New chains (all 5)
- New chain tensioners (all 3)
- New clutch and pressure plate
- New bearings on both block and con rods
- New engine mounts
- New AOS

Its a roughly $6k project for a DIY'er. It should last another 15-20 years. With so much sweat equity tied up, I wont be able to ever sell the damn thing!

On the plus side... my wife enjoys driving it. I can track it occasionally. Both kids have learned to drive stick on it. And on the summer day with the top down its a pure simple pleasure. Its a classic that is never going out of style. Not may other cars check all those boxes. Overall, cheap thrills!

[Mike Petersen]

Originally Posted by Turd

Excellent! So glad somebody has taken on the search for the source of the greenies! I still have "Turd" my 2001 Boxster S. I get the 1 in 50 blue smoke start, usually only if there is an audience..... for my entire time of owning Turd I have the brief "death rattle" at start up. That's been about 7 years and 40,000 kilometers. Maybe that's a result of a wounded vario cam tensioner?!. I have been changing the oil and filter about every 5000 kilometres and I am considering every 3000 kilometers or 6 months to decrease any IMS surprises.

We're all looking forward to your findings and pictures. Thanks for sharing.

I think you and I have the exact same car, and the exact same issues!