Is there any Boxster love?

[kach22i]

I was just wondering; is there is any Boxster love?

I mean, people say they love their older 911's all the time. I see classified's where the seller has an old 911 in the background yet chose to sell the Boxster rather than give up the old 911.

Is the Boxster just to average of a car to stay excited about?

The reason I'm asking is that I have a 1977 911s, it's a little of the rough side and not sorted out quite yet. It's a blast to drive, but no heat, oil drips and other little things always needing attention does grow tiresome.

My daily driver if you can call it that- as I've been walking to work for 12 years (3 out of 5 days), has just about rusted out, like a horse it may have to be put to sleep soon.

Should I stay with two cars, snow car/SUV for Michigan winters and the 911 for the summer, or try to get by year around with a Boxster?

There is a dentist downtown that drives his Boxster year round, I might leave a note under his wiperblade and ask him about his winter Boxster experiences.

What's your take? Do you love your Boxster the same way you would an old 911?

[joe and molly]

My guess is that any Porsche that is not a 911 is really going to have to work for its "love". The front-engine water-cooled models are a perfect example. Although most of them are fabulous cars, they do not derive from a previous Porsche heritage and are therefore scorned by some [close-minded, crotchety old!] people.

I think the Boxster has a better shot than they did because of its 550/RS60 link, but is still a little too new in the Porsche world right now.

I've only owned my first Porsche, a 2000 Guards Red Boxster S, for three weeks now, so I'll let you know about its suitability as a daily driver in about a year. It's already been in the snow in Lake Tahoe and a grand time was had.

Oh by the way. Don't tell anybody but, everybody knows the motor belongs in the middle!


Joe

[Ferrara_racing]

The Boxster is a fine sports car. If it has any weak points they might be in fit, finish and build quality. My 20 year old 944 had a more solid sound when you shut the door. The inside is a bit "plastic filled" for a car in this expense category. The factory upgraded sound system is a piece of S***. The controls you want to be lit at night aren't, the power amp is a bit weak and the Becker outdated technology radio/CD won't play downloaded MP3 files.

These are all minor complaints, overall the vehicle is a breathtaking ride. If you were stuck listening to nothing but the engine you still get a great song. The steering, brakes and engine are excellent. I'm sure the purists will demean the car for it's water cooling. Since it's derived from the Le mans race vehicle they shouldn't have too much to throw stones at. In short, the Boxster is a great car, the only other car that approaches it is another Porsche...

[kach22i]

I want to be a driver, not a mechanic.

Will the Boxster do this for me?

[Doug&Julie]

Originally posted by kach22i
I see classified's where the seller has an old 911 in the background yet chose to sell the Boxster rather than give up the old 911.

Could you be talking about me?

Make no mistake, I LOVE my Boxster. It's my second and will not be my last. I bought it two years ago because I wanted to get away from the two car routine...and no Porsche is better as an all around/all weather driver than a modern one (Boxster or 996). Add in that, for the most part, the modern Porsches are very reliable. (..cough...cough..) Best of all, with the modern Porsches the emmenities that most people are used to when they spend this kind of money for a car are finally there. Really, there is no reason NOT to buy a newer Porsche.

...unless you're a "purist". As much as I want to sympathise with them (because I LOVE older 911s as well), I simply can't see how/why the newer cars deserve this degradation. But for some reason, some people just can't love the new because "it just ain't the old". Go figure.

But is there LOVE for Boxster? Let me take a poll of the three people I personally know who have them:

Love (3)
Like (0)
Loath (0)

It's unanimous!

...So why am I selling mine? There is no one real reason, but the biggest right now is I'm trying to cut back on my "automotive investments" and right now (believe it or not) it's cheaper for me to pay for two cars (including one older Porsche) than it is to pay for my Boxster. Julie and I are ultimately trying to move to the PNW so we're doing the saving thing...as much as a Porsche owner can save.
Another reason is my brother has an '03 Boxster, but is looking at a brand new Boxster S. So there may be an '03 Boxster in the future that I can get for a really good price.
The last big reason is...quite frankly...I'd like to experience as many Porsches as I can before I die. Ideally, I'd add them as life went along. But, as I indicated before, I can't afford that right now. So I have to sell one to try another. At some point, I think I'll be able to break away from this. But for now...

Don't worry...I'll be back!

[kach22i]

Originally posted by Doug&Julie
...unless you're a "purist".

Here is adding to what seems on the surface to be a simple topic.

Weight.

To be true to Porsche's roots (heritage) would not the Boxster be a spartan simple and light weight machine? It is compared to some, compared to others, not so much.

I would love to have a Lotus Elise, but cost and yes practicality come into play.

I've looked at the spec's on the Toyoda MR-2 Spyder, 4 cyl light weight..........seems more like an early purist Porsche than the Boxster.

I'm going to have to get back to work and make some money if a Boxster is in my future. Cheers all.

[Matt Alley]

On principle the 3.2 Carreras and 993s I almost bought as "3rd cars" over a 3-year Porsche search are very exciting cars, rewarding to drive well, and oozing all kinds of racing and GT heritage that really appeals to me. Plus, in all the long glorious pantheon of beautiful Porsche street cars, the 993 C2 coupe has the most heart-stopping visual effect on me. Add to that the bullet-proof reliablility of the air-cooled engines (remembered through the haze of time as much more reliable than they really were!) and you have an undenyably hard-to-beat package.

That said, every time I tried to pull the trigger on a used 911, I couldn't. Why? You're going to laugh at this, but I would drive up to test the Porsche in my low-miles modified (turbo, full suspension) 94 Miata, fully pumped that THIS would be the one I'd fall in love with and buy, and I'd drive away in my Miata saying if only the Porsche was as much fun to drive as the Miata (and as fast, but that's another story), I'd pay the 3-5 times as much just for the joy of having a Porsche. But they never were. The 915 gearbox is a real bear compared to the jewel-like Aisin unit in the Mazda, the ride was about the same, the Porsches were much heavier, and I was always happier in the miata. With a 993 that wasn't the case, but by the time 993's passed under $45k I had decided I wanted a daily driver instead of a weekend car, and I just didn't want a 7+ year old DD. (others do; I just didn't).

Finally, an acquaintance in the Miata club who has a 2002 Speed-Yellow Boxster kept ragging on me to try a Boxster. I hadn't driven one since 97, when they first came out and I was seriously underwhelmed at the time. But I decided to look at the 03/04 Boxster S, because I wanted a glass window, more luxurious interior, and the extra power of the S. You see, by now I had realized that at no point on the price/performance curve was I going to be able to justify any Porsche over my modified Miata. To get a Porsche that was faster on the street (which rules out 3.3 turbos, which to me are so slow in most street driving they are a menace. I'm not kidding. At least that was my experience with the four 86/87s I test drove while looking for a 911) I had to move up to a 993TT, which was 75k minimum for average miles. Now that is a car I would love to have, and I feel it is the pinnacle of regular 911 development, but I just didn't want to lay out that kind of dosh for a car that's way out of warranty. I could afford to buy it, I could even afford to replace motors, trannies, etc. that might blow up during my ownership, but I surely wouldn't be happy doing so. It would rob me of all the joy of ownership, and that was pointless. Guess it's my Scots heritage!

Anyway, when I test drove my first modern S, a new 04 S at the dealer, I was shocked at how much more it pleased me than my previous Boxster drive had. I drove a 987 at the same time, then a 987 S a few days later, then a half-dozen more 986 S (all 04s, new and used) and concluded that, for me, a late-model 986S was the perfect intersection of value, performance, and luxurious accomodations. I wound up choosing a 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition that is just what I was always looking for and didn't realize it! A great daily driver if you want to concentrate on getting to your meeting without being "into" your car (never possible in the Miata; in the summer it was always noisy, windy and hot with the top down, or noisy, cramped and hot with the top up), then put the lid up and you're driving a well-appointed German luxury sedan with great A/C and stereo, that also happens to make a delighful roar behind your head and does bounce you around enough on rough pavement to remind you that there's some connection between your butt and the pavement. If you want to take the wife out to the club on Saturday night, she feels like a million bucks getting out of a beautiful new Porsche (never really the case with her Audi or our Honda SUV), yet she doesn't get "mussed" on the way. And if you want to have fun on the back roads, what a great toy. In the real world of Southeast US mountain roads, my brother (2002 996 cab) and I cannot gain any advantage over the other, no matter who drives which car, and have declared them equals on real streets. And, it's all under warranty for 4 years, which is a nice feeling and the big difference between the Boxster and a similarly priced late-model 911, which will be a few years older.

Sooooo, if you're still reading, look at an 03/04 986 or 986S. New ones are still available at gruesome discounts from the dealers. Used ones are out there with hardly any miles on them, and the low prices of new ones makes a 25,000-mile 2003 non-S Boxster a real value. And in my opinion, in 25 years people will say "Yeah, the old Boxsters are all great cars in their own right, but if you can afford it, get a 986, as its design is a bit more elegant and pure than the 987."

Matt

[kach22i]

Originally posted by Matt Alley
Sooooo, if you're still reading, look at an 03/04 986 or 986S.

I'm still reading, and enjoyed your descriptions.

In the fall of 1985 or spring of 86 (so long ago can't remember), I test drove a Miata. It was like sex on wheels, but I was working my way through college and decided I had to be grown up and practical - keeping my 1985 VW diesel Golf that I just bought.

Never again will I let being "practical" kill the essence of fun in my life. However as with my Honda Hawk motorcycle before it, the Diesel gave me a sence of freedom from the gas pump and a certain empowerment you don't get with any gas guzzler.

[Ferrara_racing]

Sorry dude,I'll take the Boxster over a "worked over" Miata. How about the steering, brakes and balance? all favor the Boxster.


BTW, in order to put the contest in proper context, the Porsche should be able to get an aftermarket treatment. Go to www.gembala.com. I'll put that Boxter up against the Miata any day.

[joe and molly]

Actually, Matt, I think you have a point about the 987's styling. It looks bulkier to me than the 986, which I think detracts from the original design. I suppose it's intended to look more muscular but I prefer the lighter look of the older model.

I'm not surprised you were more impressed with the S model compared to the standard Boxster. I drove several Standards before I got in an S and found them to be quite different experiences, much more than there similar appearance would suggest.



Joe Bernard

[kach22i]

The cheepest "S" is $6,000 more than the cheapest Boxster. I'm finding average difference is almost $10,000.

http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/inview/detail.jsp?car_id=179311475&dealer_id=5455099&car_year=2001&dealership_view_name=wheelzinc&cardist=100

[Doug&Julie]

Wow...that's tough to beat!

[kach22i]

Originally posted by Doug&Julie
Wow...that's tough to beat!

At a dealer no less...................bet she has a colorful history though. I'm not doing any car faxes until the money is in the bank.

[Ferrara_racing]

Kach,

A top notch body man friend of mine has told me that carfax can easily be defeated by someone who wishes to hide repairs. I wouldn't put any faith in that process after hearing what he said, he works with all the major body shops in my town. Better to bring someone who knows how to evaluate a vehicle and carefully comb the body under good lighting conditions. Even the best repairs can be spotted if you take your time and really look.

Good luck in the search.

[Matt Alley]

Originally posted by Ferrara_racing
Sorry dude,I'll take the Boxster over a "worked over" Miata. How about the steering, brakes and balance? all favor the Boxster.


BTW, in order to put the contest in proper context, the Porsche should be able to get an aftermarket treatment. Go to www.gembala.com. I'll put that Boxter up against the Miata any day.

Thanks for your opinion. You don't say how much seat time you have in modified -- or for that matter, stock -- MX5s, so I'll assume none. In contrast, I owned two turbo Miatas for a total of 11 years (one aftermarket turbo 94 and one factory turbo 04). During that time I used the 94 for 19 track days at Road Atlanta and Roebling Road in Savannah. These are untimed events, of course, and no passing except with point-bys, which if you don't give to somebody who's on your tail, you get blue-flagged. In all those events I gave 5 point bys: A 1970 Ferrari 512S LeMans racer, 2 F355 Challenge cars, one Viper Coupe, and a 94 3.6 911 Turbo. The Miata would out pull a C4 Vette to 120 on the back straight at RA, and 911 NA drivers would shake their heads and just laugh when we'd get back to the paddock after a session. Now, we all know that this could be for one of two reasons: either the Miata I had was actually a better track car than all the 911s, NSXs, 328/348s, M3s, Vettes, etc. that I encountered, or I was just a better driver than any of them. Who knows, but if it was the former, than your supposition that a modified Miata is an inferior performer to the Boxster is ipso facto wrong, and if it's the latter and I'm all that much better than all the other guys out there, then I must be one heck of a fine driver and surely my opinion on the subject counts for something, especially since I am not "biased" by current ownership of a Miata!

That said, obviously I elected to change to a Boxster S and paid a $50,000 premium to do so. It's not nearly as quick as a 250 rwhp Miata (though 25mph faster because of gearing), the steering and turn-in are probably about the same by any objective measure, although the Miata with it's 600-pound weight advantage feels so much more lively and tossable that it takes a few days in the Boxster to get over the disappointment you feel at first when you make the change. The brakes are no doubt better on the Porsche -- all the tests confirm this -- but the feel is much heavier and it requires so much more pedal effort for routine stops that after 2 months my brain still thinks the Miata's brakes were better.

So why did I do it? That extra weight makes the Boxster feel sublime over less than perfect roads, roads which made the Miata feel like the cheap economy car it is. (Note I didn't say "the cheap economy car it's based on", because the Miata is as much a clean-sheet design without common parts as any mass-produced car in the world.) The interior of the Porsche, once so spartan and under-developed feeling for its considerable price, is now a sumptuous treat for the senses whenever I climb in. The aural pleasures of that 3.2 out back are something that simply can't be matched by any aftermarket exhaust hanging off the business end of the Mazda's I4.

And finally, the look. The entire car seems so much more designed then most other sportscars, sort of the way an Audi TT feels, but without such a conscious nod to overt design for its own sake. I have to confess to choosing my parking space at public places with two thoughts in mind: where will I be protected from door dings and shopping carts, and what space will give me the longest sight-lines of the Boxster as I'm walking toward it from the store. I'm way too sophisticated to turn around and let somebody catch me staring open-mouthed at the Boxster after I've parked it, but nobody will even know about the 15 seconds I was eyeballing it on the way back out to my parking space! I enjoy this little practice so much that I even calculate the angle I'll be approaching the back of the car from and then cut the wheels hard to that side so I get to enjoy one of those 3/4 rear angles with the front wheel sticking out in your line of sight! While I really love the look of a well modified Miata, it never comes close to matching the Boxster. The beauty is in her details as well. The little grills that flank the exhaust on a Spyder SE are just sublime, as well as the dark centers/light rims of the 18" Carrera wheels. The Boxster script on the trunk is so elegant that I can't believe they've ever had any takers on the Badge Delete option! The tail pipes themselves, whether the single oval of a Boxster, the twin rounds of an S, or the over/under of my SE, are just one more example of the designer's love for this car making it to production. The entire aesthetic package is enough, when combined with the stirring performance, to make me gladly hand over the buckets of cash for this upgrade, even though I'm now a full 4-seconds slower around a tight race track! Who cares? I've decided I'm not going to track the Boxster any more. It's not as fun as a Miata, even a slow one, and for the cost of a decent set of wheels and race rubber for the Boxster I can buy... an entire used Miata!

Oh, and as to the assertion that for a fair comparison the Boxster should be allowed to dip into the Gemballa catalogue I have two things to say: 1) No Boxster should be saddled with any of the affronts to good design that parade across the pages of the various tuner catalogues in the form of aero sill extensions, Quasimodo Speedster Humps, top-speed-reducing rear spoilers or WRX-wannabe replacement front ends. (And I include Porsche's own Techquipment!) 2) Sure, if you want to allow me an $85,000 budget on the Miata I'll still whip anything you can do to a Boxster. For the cost of an 04 Boxster with, say, a Ruf 3600GT makeover I could buy an 04 Miata and transplant a supercharged 4.5 lexus aluminum V8 sitting inside a tube front subframe, and have money left over for awesome paint and custom leather over every inch of the interior. Bullett SS Would it still be a Miata? Well, no, but at least it would carry a Mazda VIN, while the RUF wouldn't have a Porsche VIN! And remember, I qualified my entire discussion before by saying I couldn't find anywhere on the price/performance curve where the Porsche could be justified over the Miata. I never said that it was impossible to build a faster Porsche than you could build a Miata!

Look, you've put me in the unenviable position of defending a car I just abandoned against one I just bought and paid thee times as much for, so let me just finish by saying that if all I was interested in was track days or maximum street performance for the dollar, or if I wasn't at a stage in life where I could comfortably afford the Boxster without really thinking about it, there's no way I would have left the Mazda. But if it's not a hardship, and if you love Porsches as I always have, then it's great to treat yourself to one, and for me the 03/04 Boxster S fits my needs and desires the very best.

Plus, the chicks and young boys swoon when I drive up.

Cheers,

Matt

P.S. Shouldn't we have some sort of limit to the length of post on here?

[Doug&Julie]

I didn't read that....but I bet I know what it says!

[Matt Alley]

Originally posted by Doug&Julie
I didn't read that....but I bet I know what it says!

How could you resist?

[Ferrara_racing]

Matt,

If you like Japan metal good for you, drive it. You don't sound like a guy who understands what a Porsche is all about. As I said, you want to talk modified, run it against a modified Porsche. As far as my racing experience, I have none. I do have the experience of having my family in the car business for 40 years and driving all makes and models over that interval. To each his own, I'm sure your Miata is a fast fun ride, enjoy it...

[kach22i]

If Matt Alley can drive as well as he types/explains himself, he must be a weapon on the track.

Matt, how does the want-a-be Boxster by Toyota (MR-2 Spyder) do on the track? I'm suprised I didn't get hung/lynched earlier for mentioning it.

[Doug&Julie]

Originally posted by kach22i
I'm suprised I didn't get hung/lynched earlier for mentioning it.

...we were TRYING to ignore that comment.