IMS bearing on boxsters

yupaleus · 01-25-2010, 12:51 PM

Hi,
I am a private owner of a boxster s 2001. A couple of questions:

I've seen the posts on the boxster IMS bearing. Apparently there can be either a single row or dual row bearing depending on the boxster model.

I have read that up to 2001 usually have the single row bearing.
1.Can anyone tell definitively (aside from taking the IMS out) which boxsters have the IMS single row versus dual row bearing? Does pelican parts sell either? If so, what are the part numbers?

I ordered 6 cam shaft end plugs, spark plug tubes, and respective seals to try to address a valve cover leak, while also resealing the valve covers with loctite. After the entire installation, 3 of the 'green' cam shaft end plugs would slip out, making a bad seal and leak.
2.Has anyone heard of these cam shaft end plugs being defective or not sealing properly?

Thanks a bunch!

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

The earlier cars were dual-row, not single row. The failures don't seem to be related to single or dual - they fail no matter. I have an extensive set of articles coming out on this very soon.

We do sell an IMS retrofit kit, I have a tech article on that coming too.

Those plugs should just stick - I believe that they are only available from Porsche OEM at this time, so I don't think there are any aftermarket ones...

-Wayne

boxhead · 01-30-2010, 03:54 AM

Hi Wayne,

I am not interested in the LN Engineering/Jake Raby kit which retails for $600, do you offer another kit? I read elsewhere on this site that you were working on a IMS bearing kit with Scott Slauson of Softronic. I searched your catalogue but could not find such a kit. You referenced a $100 kit in the prelude of your 101 projects for boxster and cayman. Would you care to divulge your competitor? :P I think if you became a reseller of that $100 kit, that would ultimately be more profitable for you, as these cars are depreciating FAST, and as they trickle down, most folks can't afford to fork over $600 for a $30 bearing. Think -- if these cars lived longer, you'd sell more parts! Besides it would keep more of these cars on the road, and add that much more happiness to the world, because we all know, happiness=driving a Boxster

Jim Chambers · 01-30-2010, 07:21 AM

Other than cost, why do you not like the LN/Raby kit?

911ballin · 01-30-2010, 02:37 PM

well i'm in same path i bought cluctch kit for 325$ , and god flywheel seal for 14$ but when i call pelican parts and ask for the upgraded intermediated shaft kit 575$ i was surprise why so expensive when he talkes about getting a kit for 100$ or even 300$ will be fine if the include flash and 3 bolts but why 600$ for that is little expesive i think !!!! how mach really can cost to produce a small bearing like that!!! is double of what i paid for clutch kit sach! germany!! hopelly pelican parts can give better deal in this kit!

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

The kit comes with a $100 ceramic bearing, a custom-machined outer flange, a custom-machined center bolt, and a few installation tools to go along with it. Right now, there is no $100 kit...

-Wayne

boxhead · 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Chambers

Other than cost, why do you not like the LN/Raby kit?

I am not fond of their sales tactics, and I know when I'm being sold. I find some of their videos a bit humorous, the duh-duh-DUN who done it sound effects

obviously some time was put into that, inorder to sell you something: fear. If the product stood on it's own merit, there wouldn't be any need for that.

More important, if you get what you pay for, why does that $600 part offer NO warranty whatsoever? It's like when a used car salesman talks up a car, reliable as a brick, good as new, even better than new, yada yada, and minutes later talk out the side of his mouth attempting to up-sell you their extended warranty

Finally, they use the same bearing race

It's a $20 NSK bearing with $80 worth of ceramic coated ball bearings?

boxhead · 02-01-2010, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

The kit comes with a $100 ceramic bearing, a custom-machined outer flange, a custom-machined center bolt, and a few installation tools to go along with it. Right now, there is no $100 kit...

-Wayne

Was the reference to a $100 kit a mistake, typo? or does that company not sell it anymore or out of business?

There is another company that I've heard of who has an oil fed IMS bearing fix, IMNSHO really the way to go.

So Wayne, do you plan on offering another kit, at a much lower price? Because if not, I may be forced to enter the fray my own kit.

911ballin · 02-01-2010, 02:54 PM

ok i guess mostg of people only need the bearing and bolt! in my case 02 model i think porsche put better flange 2000 up !!!so that really need machine shop flange for our cars!!! if flage is 300$ off price i will take the kit eithout out it !! i think 300$ kit is more reasanable that 600$
pd someone know fact where i can get just new bearing for 100-200$?

eric523 · 02-01-2010, 03:05 PM

I think $600 to save a $15k motor is worth it, but that's me. I'm not a fan of flat6's marketing model either, but that has nothing to do with LN engineering and/or the part they offer.

I am anxious to see what you come up with that's cheaper and can allow you to warranty someones $15k motor.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Charles at LN Engineering is a top-notch, class-A guy. I haven't dealt with Flat-6 or seen the videos, so I can't comment on them. I've mentioned to Charles that I also think the bearing kit are a bit on the expensive side, but the quantities that these are being manufactured in are quite low. There is no drop-in bearing for the dual-row bearing - that was a custom-made bearing specifically for Porsche. You can use a slightly smaller bearing with a spacer, but no one is making a kit for that right now. Besides, replacing a faulty bearing design with another of the same bearing is not the wisest decision. Some of these bearings have let go on 30,000 mile engines, so in another 30K, are you going to replace your bearing again? With the LN kit, you just replace it once and forget it.

There may be a less expensive kit available in the future, but right now, Charles' kit is it.

As for the warranty issue, that is the first time I have heard of it, I will speak with Charles about it.

-Wayne

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

I've got a new article that I'm going to put on the site very soon about the bearing replacement and what needs to be done. I'm just putting the finishing touches on it, and I just figured out a way to do the replacement without the expensive cam tools!

-Wayne

Jim Chambers · 02-02-2010, 07:04 AM

I need some help on the IMS bearing issue. Is this a preventive maintenance, do it before it breaks issue? Or wait until sign of failure (what sign?) and then replace with the LN kit?

Porsche_Daddy · 02-02-2010, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Chambers

I need some help on the IMS bearing issue. Is this a preventive maintenance, do it before it breaks issue? Or wait until sign of failure (what sign?) and then replace with the LN kit?

It's considered preventative maintence. If the IMS bearing fails the cam chain will slip causing all sorts of damage so it's better to be proactive rather than reactive.

Jim Chambers · 10:38 AM

Is there a first sign like oil leaking or some such? I have an '04 with 20K miles. Have trouble with the idea of a major surgery at this point without some symtom. Sounds like a real crap shoot because it would be "open heart" surgery if the chain slips!

eric523 · 02-02-2010, 10:35 AM

This retrofit is not really major surgery on the motor.
"Open heart" surgery will be more likely a replacement heart.

You can see a symptom of this bearing failure by an oil leak at the bell housing area. The IMS has an o-ring that can leak when a bearing is near failure. You need to remove the transmission to find out if the leak is coming from the flywheel seal or the IMS o-ring. This leak will most commonly be the flywheel seal, but it could be the IMS o-ring. I would never just replace the o-ring to stop the leak, but install the retrofit immediately.

Doug&Julie · 02-02-2010, 12:56 PM

I should know this with as much Boxster "experience" as I've had, but...

If I were to buy a 2001/2/3 Boxster and put in the LN bearing update, how would we then rate the reliability of the motor? Let's say on a scale of 1-10, 10 being "bullet-proof".

911ballin · 02-02-2010, 01:32 PM

ok wayne so for people that need the one row bearing can be a better price??
second there is way to know what bearing our engine have before tear down all , in my case 02 3.2 s ????? i think late models only have one row bearing isthat right!!!
i spend the last 3 weeks reading in all webs sites checking videos this bearing is at most change thing in all boxster and 996(911s) is timing bomb could happen in 30k miles or in 100k but will happen so better change it but i guess the boxster community need s a little better price option to BE HONEST !400$ will be fine but 600$ men with the ecomnomy in my case my car seems has bad clutch so i have to invest in clutch rear main seal also maybe new flywheel pay dealer labor 1300$ and spend 6004 in bearing ar end i will be spending 2.5k in this deal!! PLEASE WAYNE HELP WITH A BETTER DEAL IN KIT !

850dunstall · 02-05-2010, 09:19 AM

times have changed, nothing is a cheap as things were when i was young, i cna still remember buying a chocolate bar for 5 cents. now Porsche's have never been cheap... even then, less so now. having said all that;

i believe that until the event of the new 9a1 engine all the m96 engines are potential timebombs for a number of reasons including the IMS bearing. LN engineering have come up with a way to eliminate the potential IMS bearing failure, its not cheap but if it saves you from having to buy a new engine it was would be money well spent.

from my reading on various website, quite number of the IMS bearing failures happened so fast that it was usually to late. the only sure way to inspect the bearing is to pull the flywheel and check the runout of the locking ? stud. so if this causes you emotional stress and loss of sleep, you really need to ask yourself if owning a porsche is right for you. having said that, given the chance I would stand at the front of the line to kick a few Porsche accountants for this fiasco. every premature failure should be a warranty bill to Porsche.

lastly flat6 is being a progressive business, here is an opportunity to make a living, you can't fault them for that. I also like 3 square meals a day. if they could sell a zillion of these the price would be lower too. i have some research to do but if my boxster falls into the right range, i am quite willing to have someone address this little issue for me, 30 yrs from now we'll all look back and say the IMS bearing is to 2000 , like the dilivar studs were to 1978?

Lets go drive....

mikefocke · 02-05-2010, 01:02 PM

Most overblown issue I've ever read about (even if it happens to me tomorrow).

You want security, buy a Toyota...oh that's right...they turn out to have failure points too. Every car and engine design has design and manufacturing and procurement items that turn out, over time, to not be the best idea. How wonderful is hindsight.

I always love it when people ask for a great deal on a low volume part without knowing anything about the research and design costs that were necessary to come up with the design in the first place. (I used to be responsible for a product that sold about 100 units a year and which required development costs of around $2 million a year. Of course folks wanted the product at what they perceived to be the manufacturing cost. Sorry folks, profit is the motive that produces such products. It isn't a dirty word. And without it you don't have the possibility of the product ...unless you design it and manufacture it yourself. Feel free to.)

Jake is entitled to make money for developing the support and training behind the product. Charles for the research that led to the product.

And there are replacements for the single and the dual bearing IMS bearings....the amounts of misinformation floating around is amazing.

To quote from LN's web site:

"On a new or remanufactured engine the only "preventative" measure that can be taken short of our retrofit kits is to remove the seal off the front of the IMS bearing, to allow for engine oil to lubricate the bearing. Alternatively, you can repack the bearing with a quality synthetic bearing grease and put a new seal (available from any place that sells bearings).

With proper lubrication and more frequent oil changes, longevity of your original IMS can be greatly extended. Our retrofit kits use ceramic bearings with significantly longer service life and come with seals removed for improved oiling as well.

LN Engineering offers three IMS solutions -

* single row IMS retrofit kit (fits most MY01-05 M96 engines)
* dual row IMS retrofit kit (fits most MY97-00 M96 engines)
* and our IMS upgrade which requires engine disassembly to remove and send in your IMS to us for our triple-bearing upgrade & ims reconditioning service"