Engine swap question from book

[harryrcb]

Wayne, just curious, in your book you mentioned that an 04 986 s can accept any 996 or 997 engine, I'm assuming up to 08. I did some searching for who does the dme upgrade for that swap and found that Softronic only does the dme upgrade for 997 (3.8) into 987 and did not have a listing for 986 except for the 3.4 and 3.6 swap
My question is this ,do you have another source for upgrading the dme? I have an e-mail in to Scott but have not heard back from him yet. Just wanted to know if you had another source. I have used the Softronic tune on my current setup and was really pleased with the results, I'm making 310 hp @ flywheel with cold air, headers , cat delete, and borla muffler and of course the Softronic touch and I made all that stuff myself except for Borla
Thanks in advance for any info
Harry

[Wayne 962]

It does get more complicated, the farther out the years get (the difference between chassis and engine). Softtronic doesn't list all of the options available on their website - there's plenty of custom programming they can do.

FVD is another tuner that can program ECUs. People I have spoken with have had good experience with them. GIAC is another reputable shop, as is Evolution Motorsports.

Hope this helps,

Wayne

[harryrcb]

Thanks Wayne, it does help. Sorry to ask these basic questions but have you heard of anyone swaping an 09 3.8 s motor into a 986? I know that's opening a can of worms but I am curious as I have one available to me. I know FVD did an early 3.8 swap but it took them like 6 months and a couple of trips to Germany according to the forum. If I have to do something like that then I might as well go for the newer DFI engine.

[Wayne 962]

Anything is possible, but I do not know of anyone who has done that quite yet. I would predict you'd have to rewire a lot of the car and spend days going over electrical schematics.

-Wayne

[Schumi]

Piggybacking on this discussion,


what is it exactly that Softronic, GIAC, etc are using to crack, code, and upload files to the Bosch ECU? There obviously is some Bosch standard at work behind the scenes, but why is the programming so limited to so few people? I understand that the Bosch ECU used in these cars is a closed box, i.e. no removable chips, but still, it seems there would be more out there on home-useable software to communicate, download, and upload to the ECU (and I'm not talking about something like durametric's proprietary software, but tools like Bosch's OEM ECU tool).


To give this perspective, look at the 944 and it's system- there are people who have EEPROM writers and the program to read/write Bosch ECU data to eeprom chips to modify the fuel and timing maps on their own by editing the hex code- or things like the MAXtronic software that is an imageable EEPROM emulator for tuning the ECU.

Obviously the newer Bosch ECU's are far more advanced than the 944 version, but the principle is still the same.


A more open development with the ECU would drive down the cost of ECU flashes (the softronic is $900.... a lot of cash, still)

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Schumi

Obviously the newer Bosch ECU's are far more advanced than the 944 version, but the principle is still the same.

I think you hit the nail on the head. None of these upgrades / conversions seem to go smoothly either, so it's not like buying a coke at the local convenience store - there's a lot of tech support involved.

I've mentioned to Scott (Softronic) that he should lower his pricing on the standard flash upgrades (where you're just upgrading the flash, and not adding anything special), as the cost is really high for people picking the cars up for $10K. We'll see what happens.

I think there is a market for a $250 or so product to upgrade the ECU. You *can* use the PST-2 to flash the ECU with the 996 code, we did this once while working on the issues with the 3.4 transplant - we wanted to use the stock code as a starting point when we were having running problems with the engine (turned out to be that MAF sensor tube diameter problem - see the other thread). The BOSCH Motronic system, and flash is somewhat standard on European cars, I agree that someone smart in the future might make an open-source product. Bringing down the cost of the software these days will go a long way in preventing that from happening...

-Wayne

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Anything is possible, but I do not know of anyone who has done that quite yet. I would predict you'd have to rewire a lot of the car and spend days going over electrical schematics.

-Wayne

I agree with you that anything is possible if you have enough persistence and possibly money to throw at the project, unfortunately I only have one of these and its not money lol

Shumi - you are right, the pricing is ridiculous but thats what happens when you have the market cornered. I can't see them lowering the price anytime soon until someone comes up with a simple program he's willing to share with other at a reasonable price.

[mikefocke]

These guys aren't bad guys folks.

The market is limited, the startup costs in equipment and time are high and that has to be covered by the limited number of sales. They did the investment, they are entitled to pick their pricing model. I doubt any of the 4 mentioned are getting truly rich of flashing Boxsters.

Is a much lower price point a possibility? Sure. But the problem arises with the first person who does the flash on a stock car and then adds the next mod and asks for support because something isn't quite right. Supporting a professional costs a lot, an owner/amateur astronomically. And if you don't your reputation suffers.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by harryrcb

Thanks Wayne, it does help. Sorry to ask these basic questions but have you heard of anyone swaping an 09 3.8 s motor into a 986? I know that's opening a can of worms but I am curious as I have one available to me. I know FVD did an early 3.8 swap but it took them like 6 months and a couple of trips to Germany according to the forum. If I have to do something like that then I might as well go for the newer DFI engine.

I am looking for a 03-04 3.6 to build a 3.8 to install in a 03-04 Boxster S this is far simpler & more cost effective.

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

I am looking for a 03-04 3.6 to build a 3.8 to install in a 03-04 Boxster S this is far simpler & more cost effective.

I'm not so sure if it is cost effective, I checked into building and engine out to a 3.8 first you need an engine $$$ then the big bore kit $$$ then the IMS upgrade $$$ then forged con rods $$$. After pricing it all out the parts are in the 8 grand range not counting your donor engine price, then you probably have to look at larger injectors or at least larger intake manifold, then your dme upgrade and if you don't do your own work then labor on top of that. So I can buy a low mileage 3.8 s for around 8-9k or a dfi engine for 10-12k ( I do my own installs and rebuilds) so for me it makes more sense to go this way