ugh... gearbox rebuild...

[aldente295]

I was up doing the Jaguar Club's Car Rally this weekend in the Blue Mountains, and I guess I did a bit too much 'spirited' driving . Next thing I know I hear a 'clunk', it falls out of gear and I can't get into any gear except 3rd and 4th.

I was hoping that it was the fork guide on the inspection cover that had just become dislodged... so when I got it home (THAT was entertaining... 3rd gear only, no reverse...) I drained the fluid and popped the cover off. I'm no expert, but I suspect this is a Very Bad Thing:



After spending a couple of hours reading various articles, I _think_ this is a 'brake band'. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's a full teardown and replace/rebuild...

I was already having issues shifting into 3rd over the past month or so (whining as it went in) which various remedies - changing out the fluid, replacing bushings etc - hadn't helped, so I guess it's not that unexpected - though certainly a lot sooner than I had hoped!

So, I guess I have three options;

1. Take the whole car to a garage and have them do the work
2. Drop the engine/trans, then take the tranny in to have it rebuilt/swap for a rebuilt one
3. Drop the engine/trans and do the rebuild myself

After reading a bunch of posts, including Randy's amazing rebuilding effort here:
Can't Shift Into First

I sway wildly between 'Sure, I can do this' and 'What the he11 am I getting myself in for!!'

So looking for some advice...

- If I did leave it to a garage, where would you recommend? I'm in Bronte, have had good (if limited) experience with EuropeSport in Alexandria... any others?

- How much am I looking at spending at a garage? If I DIY? to do a swapout? (and where might I source a rebuilt 915?)

- On a scale of 1 to 10, what's the difficulty level here - I've adjusted the valves and replaced an oil hose or tube, but that's as deep as I've gone...


The car's an '80 SC with a 3.0 and 915 trans btw.


cheers guys -
Al

[Mothy]

Carlos Cavaco in Glebe did mine when I stripped first gear - did a great job and has given many trouble free miles ever since.

A fair price was good as well.

Tim

[Fishcop]

Al

I've just finished rebuilding my 915. It was much easier than I expected, but not cheap. Do it properly and replace everything whilst there, dog-teeth/sychros (brake bands)/energisers/1-2 slider, 3-4 slider, and be prepared to replace some bearings - particularly the pinion bearing. As your gearbox exploded there is a risk of metal in the system, so everything needs to be cleaned up.

My total cost was nearly 4k BUT that included full Wevo upgrades. I reckon you could do everything without being fancy for just under 2k.

You will have to remove the engine and gearbox, and have a decent clean work space. There are a couple of specialist tools required, but you can get by with improvisation and/or good relationships with the local mechanic

I took plenty of photos, and am happy to walk you through it.

Cheers
John

[obrut]

i'd recommend micheal newton automotive. he specialises in porsche engines and gearboxes - from 901's thru to sequential cup car boxes.

from memory he has a fixed rebuild labour cost - the only variable is what parts you need to replace.

[TunersGroup]

Hi Al,

The same thing happened to my 915 a while back.

The Bentley manual has a reasonable explanation of the rebuild procedure ...



Also if you are PCNSW member, have a talk to Ray Fowler. He recently went to the US and did a Porsche engine and gearbox rebuilding course hosted by Bruce Anderson and Jerry Woods. I know they covered the rebuild of a 915 in depth in that course, so he may be able to offer you some advice on it.

- Adam

[aldente295]

Excellent advice from all of you - thanks for the prompt response as well!

The first thing I'll need to do is sort out my garage. We literally just moved in less than 2 weeks ago, so everything's still in boxes and/or chucked into the garage. Need to sort out some shelving, build a decent workbench, then figure out what additional tools I need for this.


Adam, I am indeed a PCNSW member so I'll see if I can get hold of Ray. I have yet to attend an event (and will feel pretty silly going to my first one without a P-car!) But what can you do.
John, would love to get any advice on offer. The 2k mark is music to my ears, I wasn't really sure what to expect.

Once I get myself sorted out and in a position to start ripping into it, I'll give another update here.

Cheers again guys -

Al

[JV911SYDNEY]

Originally Posted by Mothy

Carlos Cavaco in Glebe did mine when I stripped first gear - did a great job and has given many trouble free miles ever since.

A fair price was good as well.

+1

carlos did mine too

[Fishcop]

Al, some great advice from everyone and you're lucky to be in a location that has a few professional options. I'd be very tempted to get some quotes from the pros and get back on the road asap! But if you're like me and have to meddle and see for yourself, the read on

I just realised looking at my receipts that the 2k was in USD, so work on 2.5k AU.

At the risk of upsetting local vendors, it's still cheaper to deal with the US if you're planning on doing the work yourself. I have a full inventory of parts purchased and took my advice from Hayden Burvil of Wevo in San Carlos. From memory - you're American? You probably have some friends/family you can have things drop shipped to and then get them to sent the whole lot via USPS to reduce costs (vendors usually just won't post things anymore - it all has to be couriers and tracked which adds considerable cost). The good news is that just about everything you'll need will fit in a small box and be less than 7kg.

There is a real risk with the alloy box (as opposed to the mag box) that the pinion bearing will have shagged the mating surface holding it out of round. You'll see that the race has been spinning in the box - this is bad (but normal for these old boxes) and some machining may be required. You can also cheat and try one of the Loctite bearing retainers (chemical).

Good luck

[aldente295]

Hi John - yeah, Canadian but close enough in this case . I spent a couple of years in California, so have some friends I can hit up to ship to and onship to me.

Hard to believe it would all only weigh 7kg, given the number of parts you mention! I assume this didn't include a new flywheel/clutch disk? I figure I'll be looking at replacing the clutch when I get it apart as well; do you normally replace both or just the disk/throwout bearing?

What's the deal with duty/taxes when the box gets shipped anyway - is there a maximum value you can ship at one time?

Your comments on the pinion bearing are going straight over my head at this stage - it's going to take a little bit to get up to speed with the terminology. I'm going to aim at dropping the engine+g.b. in a couple of weeks, and continue to read everything I can get my hands on in the meantime. I'm assuming there's not much point in ordering any parts until I get the thing apart and see what the damage is.


Al

[Fishcop]

Hi Al

Sorry... like calling a Kiwi an Aussie

The parts you need to replace are physically small and relatively light, the big heavy stuff is reused unless you're really unlucky and damaged gear sets. You should only need to resurface/machine the flywheel, replace the friction disk and assess the pressure plate... it may or may not need replacing (same with the bearings). So much of the internals will look servicable, but it really is a case of do it while you're in there or you'll regret it 1000km later!

There are several VERY good threads on the board that discuss the pinion bearing problems that occur in the final drive case. I'll find them for you when I'm not at work But basically the physical metal casting wears and bearings get loose.

[billjam]

Originally Posted by aldente295

What's the deal with duty/taxes when the box gets shipped anyway - is there a maximum value you can ship at one time?
Al

Al,
Always keep the value of individual shipments less than AUD1,000.
There is no maximum value, but if you go over AUD1,000, customs will hold the parcel until you pay customs duty (10% on most parts I think) and another 10% GST based on the total cost of parts, duty and shipping.
Apart from the delay and inconvenience of having to pickup parts from the airport customs depot, you can easily add an extra 25% to your parts cost if you get caught in this trap.

Customs track incoming shipments so don't get supplier to just split the shipment and send multiple shipments to you. They will pick this up and clobber you for duty and GST on all shipments if they consider you are splitting shipments to avoid tax. It's good to have friends.
Customs use the value (converted to AUD) on the customs declaration or its US equivalent to identify packages to be taxed. Its good to have friends. (at both ends!)

[aldente295]

Excellent advice Bill - thanks!

[Fishcop]

Which is why I suggested you drop ship to a friend and have them repackage as a "birthday present" and not a vendor parcel...

[matty74]

+ 1 for Carlos did my 915 outstanding skills

[JV911SYDNEY]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

Which is why I suggested you drop ship to a friend and have them repackage as a "birthday present" and not a vendor parcel...

"race car parts" has always worked for me for parcels over $1000 in value

[aldente295]

Well, progressing - albeit a little slowly. I've had to concentrate most of my time on cleaning up the garage so that I can have somewhere to work. That's gone well, and I think I'm about 80% there. Good enough to get started.

I went to Supercheap on Saturday (20% sale on everything in the store!) and bought a bunch of good stuff, including an engine stand (for the tranny), a small (2 HP) air compressor and rattle gun, a couple more jack stands and a small floor jack, and a few other tools.

So far all I've managed to do on the car is:

- drain the transmission fluid
- drain the oil
- disconnect the battery
- raise the car on a couple of stands

...which doesn't sound very impressive, I admit :-). I've also spent a long time underneath the car staring up at the bottom of the engine, trying to envision how to build a cradle for it. I had been planning on going with the ATV jack method of lowering, but I can't actually find one.

There's obviously a million and one solutions out there in Pelicanland as far as cradles go; so far I think I'm going to go for emcon5's dolly solution about a third of the way down this page:

Floor jack engine cradle

Unless someone would recommend a better solution?

Anyway I'm aiming to have the engine ready to come out on the weekend after next (the 8th of Aug). Any Sydneysiders up for an engine dropping party? :-D

[Walko]

Alan, what part of sydney are you located in I am in the Shire and could probably give you a hand if yo arent too far away

Michael

[aldente295]

I'm in Bronte in the Eastern sub's.

... and though people have said they 'live in the Shire', I still have no idea where that is!

[Mothy]

I often means Sutherland Shire but then there is Hornsby Shire and Balkham Hills Shire as well - and the second two love thumbing their noses at the first when they use the term.

:-)

Tim

[billjam]

Originally Posted by aldente295

.... I've also spent a long time underneath the car staring up at the bottom of the engine, trying to envision how to build a cradle for it. I had been planning on going with the ATV jack method of lowering, but I can't actually find one.

There's obviously a million and one solutions out there in Pelicanland as far as cradles go; so far I think I'm going to go for emcon5's dolly solution about a third of the way down this page:

Floor jack engine cradle

Unless someone would recommend a better solution?

Anyway I'm aiming to have the engine ready to come out on the weekend after next (the 8th of Aug). Any Sydneysiders up for an engine dropping party? :-D

Dead right. Everyone seems to have a different way of doing this.
I dropped mine just recently to fit close-ratio gears and took a few photos along the way.
This might give you some ideas.

I got bored last night while stuck in a Brisbane hotel so I put these photos and basic instructions together - hope it helps with some ideas.

I park on some wooden blocks so I can get my trolley jack under the engine and so that the front spoiler doesn’t get squashed when I lift the rear.
I made up this wooden adapter quite a few years ago to suit my 3.2. Fortunately, the turbo uses the same crankcase. It attaches to the jack pad and fits snugly under the engine in a position close to the centre of gravity. Actually, compared to the 3.2 engine, the 930 engine is a bit heavier in the rear and left side due to extra weight of turbo and wastegate, but it’s not enough to cause a problem.





I lift the car to the full height of the jack and place jack-stands under the torsion bar end covers.
Disconnect everything (hoses, wires, clutch, selector, axles), then remove the two front and two rear mounting bolts and lower the jack and engine - SLOWLY.
With the engine supported under its centre of gravity it is fairly easy to control provided you don’t get too far off level. With the engine supported this way, you can easily rock it and feel if it is caught up on anything. I’ve done it a few times on my own, but it’s a really good idea to have another pair of hands and eyes on the job during this stage to help with handling the engine and watching for that hose or wire that you forgot to disconnect. Even wives and/or GFs can do this!

Once the rear of the engine is down 6” or so, you can start to pull it rearwards so the selector shaft comes out of the tunnel. Then it’s pretty much straight down. Keep in mind that if you do this using a trolley jack, you will have to keep rolling the jack rearwards as the engine comes down.

Once you get the engine all the way down on the jack, you then have to get it out from under the car. The fan housing won’t clear the rear bumper and valance, so there are several ways of handling this. The amount of interference here is directly related to how high you managed to lift the car in the first place. Obviously, more lift is better.
Some remove the rear bumper and valance.
I don’t wear a rear valance but my engine still won’t clear the bumper so I use some jack-stands with 1” threaded shafts and use these to screw the car up a bit higher so I can slide the engine under the bumper.

Once the engine is out, it is handy to be able to move it around. I made up a U-shaped trolley that slides under the engine around the jack.

To split the engine and transmission, I support the gearbox with the trolley jack and pull it away from the engine.

Sounds simple!
Obviously I’ve skipped over a few details, but my aim is to give you some ideas on how to setup for and how to manage the actual engine removal.

It is always a real buzz to get this huge lump sitting in the middle of your garage. You’ll wonder how the hell it will ever go back. Have fun!