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-   -   Really officer....147 mph? RIP... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1001066-really-officer-147-mph-rip.html)

JeremyD 07-02-2018 08:38 AM
I always tell people at the track this - modern safety systems are governed by the institute of traffic safety and NHTSA. These systems are designed for normal speeds. Anything above 80 mph is considered excessive speed and not where these systems were designed for. most are designed for the automotive sweet spot where most accidents occur - 35-45 mph. So when they say, I have an airbag I'll be good - they may as well have a unicorn at the track

onewhippedpuppy 07-02-2018 08:50 AM
Forget safety systems, the impact of your body rapidly decelerating from 150 MPH to 0 alone can be fatal. It's why modern cars (and race cars) have crumple zones, the car deforms to absorb the impact energy and reduce the energy imparted on the designer. But there's a practical limit to how well this stuff works.

pwd72s 07-02-2018 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tervuren (Post 10093078)
Geebuz.

A button that shifts the gears and loads ECU maps for potential use of flank speed is not a "full throttle for twenty seconds".

For those that don't know, I make lights, and have worked on many systems for high speed photography, including two major crash testing installations in the U.S.

The seat belt is designed to resist motion for the air bag to deploy, if seat belt is not buckled then a driver will hit the air bag as the air is exploding. That airbag explodes with bone crunching lethal force.

Airbags do not deploy if no seat belt is connected.

It is also possible that past a certain velocity/weight of passenger the seat belt would not be able to restrain a body from making contact with the dangerous expanding air bag, and above that velocity/weight the air bag should not deploy.

Even with all the latest safety equipment high velocity into the forests can be very very fatal. Two teens died on my road driving a Honda. The tree has started to heal now, the scars of where the car hit the tree is less obvious.

When race cars crash at 150MPH, there is generally a barrier of tires, or "safer barrier", the crash typically hits an object designed as part of a crash system in addition to the car itself.

When those doesn't happen, well, look at the fatal Aston Martin crash at Le Mans not to long ago, a "safe" race car hit a tree.

URY914, air bag deployment can take into account a calculation of distance of occupant from the deployment zone of the air bag and deployment time of air bag. If the two would intersect there would not be an air bag deployment.

Air bag deployment is also subject to direction of force.

Air bags don't deploy if seat belt not fastened? Didn't know that. If true, Hmmmmm.

sammyg2 07-02-2018 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gogar (Post 10092466)
Is that model of 911 drive-by-wire?


You know I've had this recurring nightmare that no one knows how to turn off a modern "push to start" car when it's moving. I had to show my mom how to do it.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1530477587.jpg


I wonder maybe- just maybe- some of these accidents like this one and others, like the ones where you hear someone frantically calling 911 about "My Car won't stop!!!!" etc. just don't know how to turn off a modern push-to-start car when it's in motion. Do you know how?

Here's a recent one.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/gas-pedal-stuck-man-tells-911-barrels-interstate/story?id=53044686


Could this doctor in the 911 have had a drive-by-wire failure and didn't know how to turn the car off?
99.99% of those stories against Toyota turned out to be bogus.
Driver error, floor mat stuck on pedal, or flat out lies.

Quote:
Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor or Ocham's razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae "law of parsimony") is the problem-solving principle that, the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. In other words, when presented with competing hypothetical answers to a problem, one should select the answer that makes the fewest assumptions.

onewhippedpuppy 07-02-2018 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwd72s (Post 10093297)
Air bags don't deploy if seat belt not fastened? Didn't know that. If true, Hmmmmm.
That's true with most cars, it may even be some sort of NHTSA rule. Think about it, if you go flying forward while the airbag is coming towards you, it's like getting punched by the airbag. Not good.

speeder 07-02-2018 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 10093408)
That's true with most cars, it may even be some sort of NHTSA rule. Think about it, if you go flying forward while the airbag is coming towards you, it's like getting punched by the airbag. Not good.
So it's better to go flying forward into the steering wheel or windshield? That makes no sense. :confused:

pmax 07-02-2018 11:25 AM
RIP.

Quote:
The police report shows that Strouch was not tested for drugs or alcohol and speed was the main contributing factor in the crash.
They have the exact speed of the crash but omitted the drug tests.

onewhippedpuppy 07-02-2018 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 10093424)
So it's better to go flying forward into the steering wheel or windshield? That makes no sense. :confused:
Airbags deploy at speeds between 150 and 250 MPH, which puts the terminal velocity in this case somewhere between 300 and 400 MPH of the driver hitting the airbag. Ever see someone who was sitting too close to the steering wheel in an airbag deployment? They are no joke and can do some serious damage. I also know several people who have been ejected from a car due to not wearing a seatbelt and lived. Lots of smart people work crash safety, so I have to assume that on average your odds are better with no airbag if you aren't wearing a seatbelt.

javadog 07-02-2018 11:55 AM
I would imagine that an airbag would not deploy for an empty seat, so...

Given that this guy was ejected and the airbag not deployed, perhaps he was un-belted...

kach22i 07-02-2018 11:59 AM
Just remember the last time we all agreed it's wasn't the P-car, it was the driver, Porsche/VW still had to cut a check.

Paul Walker's daughter settles wrongful death lawsuit with Porsche
https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/paul-walkers-daughter-settles-wrongful-death-lawsuit-porsche/story?id=50694081
Quote:
Porsche has also settled a separate lawsuit filed by Paul Walker's father, Paul Walker III, who is the acting executor of his son's estate.
I want to slap this guy upside his head.

Quote:
"The bottom line is that the Porsche Carrera GT is a dangerous car. It doesn't belong on the street. And we shouldn't be without Paul Walker or his friend, Roger Rodas," Meadow Walker's lawyer Jeff Milam told ABC News at the time.

Zeke 07-02-2018 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 10093408)
That's true with most cars, it may even be some sort of NHTSA rule. Think about it, if you go flying forward while the airbag is coming towards you, it's like getting punched by the airbag. Not good.
Most cars. A friend was not wearing his seat/shoulder belt and had a head on collision. Bag deployed and he walked away from a totalled car. Jeep I think.

onewhippedpuppy 07-02-2018 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 10093528)
Most cars. A friend was not wearing his seat/shoulder belt and had a head on collision. Bag deployed and he walked away from a totalled car. Jeep I think.
Was it older? A lot of early airbag equipped cars didn't have a seat occupancy sensor, and I don't think the seatbelt buckles were "smart" either.

speeder 07-02-2018 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 10093538)
Was it older? A lot of early airbag equipped cars didn't have a seat occupancy sensor, and I don't think the seatbelt buckles were "smart" either.
My old early '99 Ford SD F-250 has an airbag sensor in the passenger seat, (to determine if anyone is there), as well as the AB shut-off on dash for baby seat in passenger seat.

I haven't read all of the links for this crash so I don't know how you guys know that the AB did not deploy but @ 150mph into a tree, this was like a plane crash and he was probably in several pieces unless thrown clear somehow.

As for ABs saving lives, I always think of the Princess Di crash where the only guy wearing a seatbelt in the car survived a crash w mind-blowing deceleration. He was in the passenger seat front, car hit an immovable concrete bulkhead @ 80+mph dead center and he lived, albeit w serious injuries. The people in the back seat hit the back of the front seats @ 80mph and their organs continued @ 80 after their outer bodies stopped.

To put it in perspective, if someone hit you w a pillow going 80mph it might take your head off. Or maybe, "a blade of grass can go through a telephone pole in a tornado." :(

ossiblue 07-02-2018 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog (Post 10093506)
I would imagine that an airbag would not deploy for an empty seat, so...

Given that this guy was ejected and the airbag not deployed, perhaps he was un-belted...
According to this link, based on the Raleigh police accident report, he was ejected from the vehicle and he was wearing his seat belt. The failure of the airbag to deploy would be irrelevant to his death.

https://www.cbs17.com/news/unc-rex-doctor-killed-when-porsche-hits-tree-at-148-mph-on-wade-ave/1273568028

ossiblue 07-02-2018 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 10093655)
My old early '99 Ford SD F-250 has an airbag sensor in the passenger seat, (to determine if anyone is there), as well as the AB shut-off on dash for baby seat in passenger seat.

I haven't read all of the links for this crash so I don't know how you guys know that the AB did not deploy but @ 150mph into a tree, this was like a plane crash and he was probably in several pieces unless thrown clear somehow.

As for ABs saving lives, I always think of the Princess Di crash where the only guy wearing a seatbelt in the car survived a crash w mind-blowing deceleration. He was in the passenger seat front, car hit an immovable concrete bulkhead @ 80+mph dead center and he lived, albeit w serious injuries. The people in the back seat hit the back of the front seats @ 80mph and their organs continued @ 80 after their outer bodies stopped.

To put it in perspective, if someone hit you w a pillow going 80mph it might take your head off. Or maybe, "a blade of grass can go through a telephone pole in a tornado." :(
See this link regarding failure of airbag. https://www.cbs17.com/news/unc-rex-doctor-killed-when-porsche-hits-tree-at-148-mph-on-wade-ave/1273568028

I agree, airbag did not play a role in this incident as he was ejected from the vehicle.

Tervuren 07-02-2018 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 10093211)
Even if you are of "normal" local fitness, you have to weigh enough to get the job done.

I remember back when I was a young man, and not even 130 lbs lifting myself out of the bench seat of a 1968 F-150. Everything was manual and trying to turn the wheel sharply at low speed took everything - had to put my body into it, it was like gym class.

Nowadays one can steer a full sized truck with their little finger.............unless like you say the power goes out.
Well, for me normal local fitness is a diet that staples on starch, refined sugar, food coloring, and preservatives.

75% of adults are either overweight or obese.

I don't think weight is the problem I was referring to.

If You're built like Mark Martin, or Jimmy Johnson, it is the muscle power connecting the leverage of the seat back to the brake pedal, they are light, and can handle lack of power brakes. Same goes for the steering, leverage your body and use muscle power. A light weight can do it if fit.

If I go out it is normal for me to see folks that would be in need of losing at least 100lb's.

I recognize this isn't the case for everyone on this forum, hence my comment about average fitness being based on my local observations.

I have traveled a lot, been to many parts of this country, and other countries. It isn't universally as bad as it is here.

masraum 07-02-2018 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 10093495)
Airbags deploy at speeds between 150 and 250 MPH, which puts the terminal velocity in this case somewhere between 300 and 400 MPH of the driver hitting the airbag. Ever see someone who was sitting too close to the steering wheel in an airbag deployment? They are no joke and can do some serious damage. I also know several people who have been ejected from a car due to not wearing a seatbelt and lived. Lots of smart people work crash safety, so I have to assume that on average your odds are better with no airbag if you aren't wearing a seatbelt.
My guess is that it's more about $$ (cost of replacing said airbag, etc...) than safety.

Seat belts are mandatory everywhere, therefore, no seatbelt must mean no passenger, no passenger means "we don't need to blow this airbag to protect no one."

pavulon 07-02-2018 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmax (Post 10093455)
RIP.

They have the exact speed of the crash but omitted the drug tests.
If there is only one passenger and that person is dead and in presumably pieces from a witnessed horrific accident such as this, it could be that there is no uncontaminated blood to test until an autopsy could be performed and any test result would be academic at best. Maybe a lawyer would see it differently especially if there is $$ on the line.

If this guy was or was soon to be divorced, this has suicide written all over it.

javadog 07-02-2018 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcar (Post 10093858)
From the article: " He was wearing his seat belt, but the airbag did not deploy, the report showed."
Yeah, maybe he was. But I don't take some things at face value, as I know how many errors there are in many news reports, nor do I believe the cops always make the right conclusions in an investigation.

Time will tell.

Gogar 07-02-2018 07:35 PM
Can an airbag deploy if the time delta is roughly 25% the 'usual' time? We all know airbags deploy incredibly fast, but 150mph is pretty incredible physically speaking.


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