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tabs 07-18-2018 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Por_sha911 (Post 10111985)
+1

I read about folks who have the "whatever it takes" mindset. Work full time while go to school, walk to work, work two jobs, start at the bottom. I once heard it said this way: "don't ask for more money, become more valuable".




Supply and demand does NOT say otherwise. Paying more money for slackers or unskilled only raises the cost of living for everyone since the skilled will demand more.

My company has no experience, entry level positions that pay 40-50% more than the going entry level job. We have an attendance points system that is really liberal and easy to keep. On a regular basis we have people who quit or get let go because they won't arrive on time and work their scheduled shift every week. Really?

I read where a fellow who was middle age and middle class couldn't find work in his field so he went to work part-time at Mickey D's. The manager noticed his work ethic and he became a shift manager. The owner saw his ethic and made him a manager of a store. Later, the owner offered to partner with him to finance him getting a store of his own. He now owns 30-40 (IIRC) stores outright.

My company hired a guy who served one of our supervisors at the drive thru window each morning because of his upbeat attitude. He started at the bottom and is rising up the ranks because of his work ethic and attitude.

Also (and this is big), paying bad employees is flushing money down the drain because they won't be profitable to the company. They can't show up 5 days a week (and always have an excuse), they have no pride in their workmanship, they have no work ethic. There is no dedication to being worth what you want to make. Also, those who have this kind of attitude will work until they get upset about some minor issue and quit (one person quit because the person she sat next to in the office wouldn't be her bff). They have a dry erase board work resume.

We have 1 or 2 generations of people raised on everyone gets an award mentality. They come out of universities with degrees because they showed up and did minimal participation. They don't want to wait for anything. Why save money to buy new furniture debt free? Just put yourself in massive debt and get it now. Why defer going on vacation to have savings? Spend every last penny and we'll hope nothing bad happens...

I would hire this guy in a New York second:
Student takes long walk to work -- ends up owning boss' car | Fox News


He will go far in this world.

These stories of perseverance make all of you Boyz sound like idlers, loafers, malcontents, shirkers and slackers.....

Por_sha911 07-18-2018 08:22 AM

As we used to say in grade school: "It takes one to know one" ?
Seriously,
Did the man of wealth and taste start at the bottom?

Tervuren 07-18-2018 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Por_sha911 (Post 10111985)
Also (and this is big), paying bad employees is flushing money down the drain because they won't be profitable to the company. They can't show up 5 days a week (and always have an excuse), they have no pride in their workmanship, they have no work ethic. There is no dedication to being worth what you want to make. Also, those who have this kind of attitude will work until they get upset about some minor issue and quit (one person quit because the person she sat next to in the office wouldn't be her bff). They have a dry erase board work resume.

Have seen this, I'm amazed at some of the folks that left their job.

Sometimes they come back when they realize how good they have it, only to quit again.

Now we don't rehire people like that anymore.

It is important to hire at an entry level pay, it separates those that will prove what they are worth from those that expect more than they are worth.

biosurfer1 07-18-2018 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Por_sha911 (Post 10111985)
+1


I would hire this guy in a New York second:
Student takes long walk to work -- ends up owning boss' car | Fox News


He will go far in this world.

Commendable, for sure, however giving a kid a car because he did what it takes to show up for work on ONE day doesn't seem like a sustainable way to operate or get kids out of the "everything now" mentality 😮

fintstone 07-18-2018 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 10112028)
These stories of perseverance make all of you Boyz sound like idlers, loafers, malcontents, shirkers and slackers.....

LOL. Walked a long distance to work many, many times as a young man. But,that was long before the internet, gofundme, and and all employers expected you to show upon time or be fired. How you got there was your problem.

On the other hand, i was in a meeting yesterday with some folks that I do not typically work with. Turned out that I was the Alpha Dog in the room...and took over as we were failing to accomplish anything. At the end, I was leaving (who was that masked man?) and mentioned retiring to some friends there. an Attendee with a major think tank (young guy is cheap suit...but with a PhD) walked up, gave me his card and suggested he could hook me up with a position at around twice my current pay. Tough call, but I really just want finish my current projects and retire. I really only want to work somewhere between 2 weeks and 2 years...so not really eager change jobs. Just goes to show that there are more jobs then people with skills.

wdfifteen 07-18-2018 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Por_sha911 (Post 10111985)

Also (and this is big), paying bad employees is flushing money down the drain because they won't be profitable to the company. They can't show up 5 days a week (and always have an excuse), they have no pride in their workmanship, they have no work ethic. There is no dedication to being worth what you want to make. Also, those who have this kind of attitude will work until they get upset about some minor issue and quit (one person quit because the person she sat next to in the office wouldn't be her bff). They have a dry erase board work resume.

I fired two employees for these kinds of attitudes. I mentioned one of them here on the board and caught a whole ration of crap for it.

tabs 07-18-2018 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Por_sha911 (Post 10112032)
As we used to say in grade school: "It takes one to know one" ?
Seriously,
Did the man of wealth and taste start at the bottom?

YEP....4 guys hand mopping 20 300 ft long grocery store warehouse aisles in 4 hours every night. Twenty years later I found out that my HS Couinciler next door neighbor had gotten the same job and quit after one night.

I was always considered to be a lazy SOB cause I only wanted to put my 8 in and go home. There were some real Over Time Kings working there. One real low IQ guy named Willard (his dad bought him a wife in Tijuana, he owned 2 houses, some other things are best left out) would suck up all the OT they would give him, 50.. 60 hours a week no problem...if they wanted to punish him they would cut him off after 8 hours. So back in the 70's he was taking home 700 a week..Well that wasn't enough for him, he decided to get a second job in the mornings. So he applied at McDonald's, the manager saw on his application how much he was making working in the warehouse and thought he was lying...

Another guy named Burns after 10 or 12 hours was told by a supervisor not to go home until he told him he could go. The supervisor went home, next day the supervisor came in and saw Burns working, and asked if he had come in early? Burns said that he was still there working because he was never told to go home...let see now almost 24 hours at 8 hours straight time, 2 hours at time and a half and lets say 12 hours of double time...After that they made sure his OT was curtailed.

Burns is one of the only guys to beat the IRS in court for not paying income tax...and the IRS wanted him bad....He finally told me that he beat them because it was adjudicated that he was selling his time to the employer...but he admonished me don't try it.

I will tell you what that job did for me, it wised up a naive, fat, dumb and stupid chump...I got's street smarts there, and learned all about how corporate bureaucracy works...and how to play em...I also saw a lot of theft, from employee all the way to the CEO of a major grocery chain...I worked with a original from the 60's Crip who management called into the office to explain to him why they had to fire his brother...ole Ronnie once told me, "I could shoot you right between the eyes go home and laugh my head off watching cartoons." He hated white people and was deadly serious. Another of the brothas that knew him in the hood had said he had killed people before. Then there was Hap who got convicted of a sex crime and was sent to the state hospital in Camarrillo..One shift I am talking to him, come in after my days off and ask wheres Hap...Ohh don't you know he got sent up...WHAT!!!..Then there were the Bikers, dopers and drunks...and Joe who was so quite that when he turned the page of a newspaper he made no sound...he was known to carry a Smith 44 mag under his coat from time to time, no one bothered him. He would only talk to guys who were into guns...one day he told me, "That before I found the Lord if they had fired me, I would have gone out in a blaze of glory."

The upside of it all were the guys who were millionaires...one old Irish guy ..OLD BIll...owned 30 apartment units on the beach in Santa Monica...and how he would beotch about Jane Fonda and rent control...It seems he had wanted to buy a house and Jane beat him in buying it...there were 2 or 3 other guys in their mid 20's who owned a lot of houses....they started out right after HS worked a lot of mandatory 14 to 16 hour days 6 days a week and were smart with their money. One black guy named Mingo became a RE agent on the west side and eventually bought his own 21St Century RE agency back in his home town.. He had a Corvette, then one day a 944 and it seems like the next a Slant Nose Turbo Carrera.

But then the most interesting of them all was a Foreman named Tom (scruffy looking guy with a beard who along with his non employee buddy were called Sanford and Son), he could come up to you and talk to for half an hour chit chatting about anything just to get the answer to one question (Tom liked to find out your secrets so he could use them against you if he had to. I never told him anything and that is why he talked to me). In other words a sociopath. His dad was an Episcopal Priest, his brothers and sisters all professional people and he almost had an engineering degree. To make a long and complicated story short he was a regular Moriarty a criminal master mind, where money wasn't the motivation but the challenge of seeing if he could pull it off. He did many times right under their noses (once a trailer was leaving the yard while he was talking to the President of Distribution for the company in the break room)...the trick was to create a transfer of merchandise from one warehouse to another, only the other was his own warehouse. They would red tag a forklift as being broken ship it to their warehouse use it to unload the merch and then ship the forklift back to the company warehouse as being fixed. He never got caught, because he never was caught red handed and was an informer on the depredations of a mid level manager (warehouse director, who got beat up in a bar in Malibu by the actor Jan Michael Vincent besides being prosecuted for embezzlement).

From there you go up the corporate ladder in scale..From 2 sources I found out the trick was to hire a mid level manager to embezzle for you. The question I pose is who in a corporation can tell the head of the internal security department to back off of an investigation of a mid level manager who was embezzling? One person the CEO or iow the boss of the head of security.

daepp 07-18-2018 10:44 AM

I do think we (those of us 50 and over) do bear some responsibility for the mindset of the Millennials. And so to some generations ahead of us. We can't escape all blame.

In business school we learn that companies often fail when the 3rd generation of family management takes over.
- Grandpa scrimped and saved and toiled to start and build the company
- Son saw his father's sacrifices, and probably put in a lot of time in his youth at the company
- Grandson never saw Grandpa's toil and stress, probably was told to focus on his studies, and never had to work at the company in his youth. He doesn't "get" it; his company often fails.

Replace "company" with "nation' and you get a pretty good metaphor for the "state" we're in today...

(Sidenote: the above theory has been suggested as to why Ferry Porsche walked into work one morning in the early 70's, stepped down from the company his father founded, and hired professional managers. If only this country's problems could be handled so smoothly!)

tabs 07-18-2018 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fintstone (Post 10112192)
LOL. Walked a long distance to work many, many times as a young man. But,that was long before the internet, gofundme, and and all employers expected you to show upon time or be fired. How you got there was your problem.

On the other hand, i was in a meeting yesterday with some folks that I do not typically work with. Turned out that I was the Alpha Dog in the room...and took over as we were failing to accomplish anything. At the end, I was leaving (who was that masked man?) and mentioned retiring to some friends there. an Attendee with a major think tank (young guy is cheap suit...but with a PhD) walked up, gave me his card and suggested he could hook me up with a position at around twice my current pay. Tough call, but I really just want finish my current projects and retire. I really only want to work somewhere between 2 weeks and 2 years...so not really eager change jobs. Just goes to show that there are more jobs then people with skills.

I know from whence you come and what you have achieved...I understand the true grit that it took to come from having nothin...ball busting perseverance. You have achieved wonders and I tip my hat to you for that. Partially that is why you show little sympathy for sloth..

But I also hold you to task. If you want to look at it , one reason why I call attention so often to the debt stuff is that they are robbing guys like you, who started from nothing, sweated, earned, sacrificed and saved every dime you ever made to have something...you are their pigeon.

For me it goes back to my Dad and Mom to, he would be in the same boat as you if he were still alive. To honor his sacrifice I suppose is the reason why I do it... I have to pay them back..

asphaltgambler 07-18-2018 11:51 AM

On topic - what ever happened to the tech company in Kali-foornia who's CEO decided his workers needed a living wage instead of whatever they were making. Raising the starting pay to $75K - giving some of his workers at the bottom a $20+k yearly raise - just because?

tabs 07-18-2018 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daepp (Post 10112251)
I do think we (those of us 50 and over) do bear some responsibility for the mindset of the Millennials. And so to some generations ahead of us. We can't escape all blame.

In business school we learn that companies often fail when the 3rd generation of family management takes over.
- Grandpa scrimped and saved and toiled to start and build the company
- Son saw his father's sacrifices, and probably put in a lot of time in his youth at the company
- Grandson never saw Grandpa's toil and stress, probably was told to focus on his studies, and never had to work at the company in his youth. He doesn't "get" it; his company often fails.

Replace "company" with "nation' and you get a pretty good metaphor for the "state" we're in today...

(Sidenote: the above theory has been suggested as to why Ferry Porsche walked into work one morning in the early 70's, stepped down from the company his father founded, and hired professional managers. If only this country's problems could be handled so smoothly!)

Well you gots it Toyota... YAY!!!!!

Why yes we do bear responsibility as our generation taught em everything that they know...

My parents were part of the "greatest generation" who struggled to get by and to have something for themselves. They succeeded and wanted to make sure that I would never have to suffer the same privations as they did..they in a sense thought that having material things would make us Boomers happy, (because they felt when they were kids, "If I only had that I would be happy") ...So they made it much easier for us. The Boomers have never known want and or the lack of OPPORTUNITY to achieve.

The Millennials see that the dream is frayed around the edges and is getting beyond their grasp, As such they realize that material success is not only not cracked up to what it is supposed to be, they more or less don't try (why reach for something you can't get and isn't all that satisfying anyway...it hasn't made their parents any happier. So they try to find other things to satisfy. The only thing for them is that they live in a society of plenty, take that away and they will be forced to deal with the nitty gritty of being hungry. That will change their attitude real quick...go ask Fint.

I didn't need graduate business school to figure out that it is third and successive generations of management where the sloth sets in.

The Founder finds a successful path to be profitable and continues that methodology till he leaves. Setting a corporate culture so to speak. Pragmatism wins the day.

The Founder hires and trains liked minded people who adopt the culture. and succeed him as the Second gen. The corp grows but the methodology is becoming ossified and the culture is becoming more important.

The Third gen is bureaucratic where culture is more important than pragmatism. They have lost the spirit of doing it right in favor of the way it done in this company.

GM is the poster child of this trajectory...also the nation has a long and evolving tradition, but it is a bit different in that success has gone to the nations head or mindset...so to speak...

BO summed up the mindset perfectly on many occasions..." It is a shame that 48M Americans don't have HC in such a RICH NATION as America." In other words there are NO LIMITS to the spending on anything because the well of money is bottomless. AMERICAN CAN AFFORD IT all WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE

THAT IS PATENTLY NOT TRUE...

Liberals in particular do not get that concept of limitations. The RICH have plenty so they can share some of it...till they aren't rich anymore. Greedy SOB's.

Starless 07-18-2018 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckelly78z (Post 10110407)
Lots of snowflakes out there living in thier parents basements who would rather make viral YouTube videos/Facebook Memes, or be a professional gamer. Actually getting up/dressed, and out the door in the morning doesn't align with thier beliefs, and desires. If these kids never get kicked in the azz, and have to take responsabilty for a mortgage/family/automobiles like adults tend top do, they will never "launch".

Way too many addictions drive these people to desparation, and taking a resposible job, and being sober doesn't agree with them.

Look at the lengths that some corporations have had to resort to to attract/keep millenials.

Let me tell you about one of those "snowflakes" My 28 year old nephew worked at Fed-Ex. left for work every night @ 9:00PM and didn't get home until 6:00 AM. Never missed a day of work, snow, ice, anything, he was there. He started doing the YouTube video thing when he got home from work since he couldn't get to sleep right away. Was making maybe a couple hundred dollars quarterly. He did this for about 2 years, Fed-Ex and then YouTube. His quarterly checks from YouTube went from a few hundred dollars to @ $24,000 quarterly. He was/is pulling in @ $100,000 just from YouTube videos working 5-6 hour per day. He just left Fed-Ex a couple of months ago to dedicate himself to YouTube. His supervisor at Fed-Ex said he understands why he was leaving and told him if he ever wants to return, they will have a job for him. Just because some millennial is sitting home uploading videos on YouTube does not mean he's a lazy kid. This kid has worked his ass off and will probably be making close to $200K in another year or so. Oh, one more thing, he doesn't drink and is a very responsible person. So don't go lumping all these kids into one group of losers just because they don't do the 9-5 job. Times have changed and if you care look, you can make a living without getting "kicked in the azz"

red-beard 07-18-2018 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 10112028)
These stories of perseverance make all of you Boyz sound like idlers, loafers, malcontents, shirkers and slackers.....

It takes one to know one! SmileWavy

tabs 07-18-2018 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daepp (Post 10112251)
I do think we (those of us 50 and over) do bear some responsibility for the mindset of the Millennials. And so to some generations ahead of us. We can't escape all blame.

In business school we learn that companies often fail when the 3rd generation of family management takes over.
- Grandpa scrimped and saved and toiled to start and build the company
- Son saw his father's sacrifices, and probably put in a lot of time in his youth at the company
- Grandson never saw Grandpa's toil and stress, probably was told to focus on his studies, and never had to work at the company in his youth. He doesn't "get" it; his company often fails.

Replace "company" with "nation' and you get a pretty good metaphor for the "state" we're in today...

(Sidenote: the above theory has been suggested as to why Ferry Porsche walked into work one morning in the early 70's, stepped down from the company his father founded, and hired professional managers. If only this country's problems could be handled so smoothly!)

Well you gots it Toyota... YAY!!!!!

Why yes we do bear responsibility as our generation taught em everything that they know...

My parents were part of the "greatest generation" who struggled to get by and to have something for themselves. They succeeded and wanted to make sure that I would never have to suffer the same privations as they did..they in a sense thought that having material things would make us Boomers happy, (because they felt when they were kids, "If I only had that I would be happy") ...So they made it much easier for us. The Boomers have never known want and or the lack of OPPORTUNITY to achieve. And that is the way we think it is and always will be.

The Millennials see that the dream is frayed around the edges and is getting beyond their grasp, As such they realize that material success is not only not cracked up to what it is supposed to be, they more or less don't try (why reach for something you can't get and isn't all that satisfying anyway...it hasn't made their parents any happier. So they try to find other things to satisfy. The only thing for them is that they live in a society of plenty, take that away and they will be forced to deal with the nitty gritty of being hungry. That will change their attitude real quick...go ask Fint.

I didn't need graduate business school to figure out that it is third and successive generations of management where the sloth sets in.

The Founder finds a successful path to be profitable and continues that methodology till he leaves. Setting a corporate culture so to speak. Pragmatism wins the day.

The Founder hires and trains liked minded people who adopt the culture. and succeed him as the Second gen. The corp grows but the methodology is becoming ossified and the culture is becoming more important.

The Third gen is bureaucratic where culture is more important than pragmatism. They have lost the spirit of doing it right in favor of the way it done in this company.

GM is the poster child of this trajectory...also the nation has a long and evolving tradition, but it is a bit different in that success has gone to the nations head or mindset...so to speak...

BO summed up the mindset perfectly on many occasions..." It is a shame that 48M Americans don't have HC in such a RICH NATION as America." In other words there are NO LIMITS to the spending on anything because the well of money is bottomless.

THAT IS PATENTLY NOT TRUE...

tabs 07-18-2018 12:30 PM

Lots of you fkers have said, "Well you have summed up the problem, BUT WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?" Then you say, "Well you have no solutions..."

The problem is that for every solution there is an untended consequence. A CATCH 22. You have painted yourselves into a box. The solution is as bad as letting it all ride.

For instance cut Govt Spending, it will save money...but there are 23M people who are employed in one way or another by the govt. Those employees are MC consumers who suddenly are not getting paychecks so they can not spend anymore. The economy slows, and tax revenues decline. Catch 22.

Every which way you turn it is the same thing...

tabs 07-18-2018 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starless (Post 10112376)
Let me tell you about one of those "snowflakes" My 28 year old nephew worked at Fed-Ex. left for work every night @ 9:00PM and didn't get home until 6:00 AM. Never missed a day of work, snow, ice, anything, he was there. He started doing the YouTube video thing when he got home from work since he couldn't get to sleep right away. Was making maybe a couple hundred dollars quarterly. He did this for about 2 years, Fed-Ex and then YouTube. His quarterly checks from YouTube went from a few hundred dollars to @ $24,000 quarterly. He was/is pulling in @ $100,000 just from YouTube videos working 5-6 hour per day. He just left Fed-Ex a couple of months ago to dedicate himself to YouTube. His supervisor at Fed-Ex said he understands why he was leaving and told him if he ever wants to return, they will have a job for him. Just because some millennial is sitting home uploading videos on YouTube does not mean he's a lazy kid. This kid has worked his ass off and will probably be making close to $200K in another year or so. Oh, one more thing, he doesn't drink and is a very responsible person. So don't go lumping all these kids into one group of losers just because they don't do the 9-5 job. Times have changed and if you care look, you can make a living without getting "kicked in the azz"

Anecdotal evidence... one success story does not make for the mindset of a whole generation. Mind you I am not telling you what that mindset is....there will always be winners and losers...and people who march to a different drummer...

CurtEgerer 07-18-2018 12:44 PM

So in other words, Bluto's advice is timeless.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gGHX_jsuRy0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

wdfifteen 07-18-2018 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 10112028)
These stories of perseverance make all of you Boyz sound like idlers, loafers, malcontents, shirkers and slackers.....

And you're not?

Por_sha911 07-18-2018 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 10112391)
It takes one to know one! SmileWavy

LOL - see post # 102

Por_sha911 07-18-2018 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starless (Post 10112376)
Let me tell you about one of those "snowflakes" My 28 year old nephew worked at Fed-Ex.

Awesome kid. Someone raised him to have a work ethic. Unfortunately he is the exception to this generation but back 50 years ago it used to be the rule.


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