Dibs! :)

Or am I too late?

Rotaries are awesome, to be certain, pigs on gas, revs to forever, grin inducing machines. Weird looking motor, a big toaster with spark plugs, but that little thing makes how much power?! Don't care for the exhaust note though.


The RX 8 chassis is a whole different ball game from the FD. It is like comparing a 1st generation Miata to the new one. About the same size and weight, but the stiffness is like pasta before and after you cook it. Maybe not that bad, but noodle has been used to describe the stiffness of the original ones

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532581281.jpg

Actually wind noise is very acceptable, despite the suicide doors it seals up very nicely. With the exhaust work it definitely sounds the "angry bees" part under acceleration, but quiets down very nicely on the highway. I drove mine home from Dallas, it's a good highway car.

It's funny, once you strip everything away the motor is about the size of a pony keg. It's why the RX cars are always so razor sharp, they mount that tiny motor low and behind the front axle centerline making for a front-mid engine configuration. It's why an LS swap on these cars just ruins the fundamental goodness. I agree that they are a love/hate proposition, you have to rev the piss out of them and the noise is unique. The Renesis is actually a higher pitched and more metallic tone than the 13B-REW, especially with the exhaust upgrades.

For the time the FD was stiff, but the R3 is an entirely different world. The RX-8 actually uses a similar architecture to the RX-7 with a powerplant frame that runs the length of the car, and is actually shared with the NC Miata. The R3 gets more reinforcement and doesn't have a sunroof, so that helps as well.

Hey Jim/Eric, what did you think about the FC in stockish form? You can get a lot of car for not much money, and I've always loved the styling. Seems like they are a better deal than finding a GSL-SE, though I like those as well. A nice Turbo II, GTUs, or 10th Anniversary would be a fun toy.

Close friend bought one of those new and reported needing a quart of oil every gas fillup, and gas fillups were quite frequent too... Still not a disqualifying reason for someone who understands and takes care of cars.. I remember driving it and it was well balanced...

Its amazing how cheap Rx8s can be had for even nice ones.

I know several car curious not hardcore car guys that bought them new and they all had major problems. I think an issue was they were pitched as practical 4 door sports cars rather than somewhat fidely niche cars.

Enthusiast forums all say the engine can last many miles, but almost everyone you see is on the 2nd or 3rd engine. I like them and I wonder if one would hold up as a dedicated track car. I don't mind a bit fidley, but I wouldent want to pull the engine every 10 hpdes

I read where the Wankel rotary engine is designed to use oil in the combustion chamber, so adding oil regularly is normal for these. Kinda resembles a 2-cycle in that regard, I suppose. A big reason why the engine was dropped..wouldn't meet emission standards in Europe. Still, a sharp-looking car

Jim captured it nicely on the previous page, the biggest problem with the rotary is owners who don't know how to take care of them. Yes they burn oil, it's by design to lubricate the apex seals. The car actually has an oil metering pump that provides a metered amount of oil based on load through injectors into the housing. The actual quantity is based on how the car is operated, but I think the book says one quart per 1,500 miles for the RX-8. I've driven mine probably 600 miles and haven't needed to add anything. There are lots of examples of cars, properly maintained, that go well over 100k on the original engine. Engines, btw, that are damn cheap even for a plug and play full reman. If you DIY they are really cheap and simple to rebuild, it's something I'd like to try at some point.

My old FD (originally owned by Seahawk's dad) got a reman at about 110k, but that was a well maintained car that was kept stock. My current RX-8 got a new engine at 27k, but it was rarely driven and babied when driven which leads to carbon buildup. The previous owner didn't really think it needed an engine because it still ran great, but it was under warranty so he figured why not?

Personally, I was very happy with the FC in NA form with minimal modifications. The car itself is really fun, and it just loves to oversteer. Chuck it into the corner and it'll start drifting without any effort. Only things we did to the NA FC was add a Racing Beat exhaust, intake, brake pads, and coilovers. Had a good four years of drifting and canyon runs twice a week!

Turbo II's would be great to get, but it's so hard to get a non-molested one right now.
Oh one cool feature about the FC's is the storage bins behind the seats! I do miss it, that was a really nifty and thought out feature!

A buddy of mine just reported back from a track day the he attended. He said one of the most amazing cars there was an RX8 with an LS3 swap. He spoke with its owner at length. He claimed it was a very easy swap, with a kit of some sort providing whatever is necessary. For guys like me who have seen too many track day problems with the rotary, this sounds like a fantastic approach.

So - I know less than nothing about these cars. Or rotaries. When I was down at the Monterey Historics a few years ago, there was one of the Le Mans winning prototypes running. Got to talking to a few folks about it, and some claimed that Mazda had resorted to running two stroke pre-mix in the gas to attain the necessary rotor life to run it hard enough to win the 24 hours. Is there anything to that?

I have to ask, why not just buy a car that came with the LS3?

I am not a drifter so I cannot comment on that aspect of the FC's.

I was really really really heavy into Autocrossing back in the early 2000's and campaigned my FC in that running in a very difficult highly modified class that was called at the time B Prepared (to spend a lot of money)

The FC has the rear wheel steer via some rubber bushings which age and wear out, many tuners sell replacements that eliminate the rear steer and I liked the car better with it removed.

Stock? They are not too sharp, I mean they handle good, dont get me wrong but not on the level of a FD or RX8.

Best example I can give.

In 2004 or so I was at an AX event, my dad was there too. At the time he had a 1993 Base FD with stock suspension and some Pettit upgrades. He was putting 320 to the wheels with it. Pettit dyno tuned his Power FC for him to take advantage of the upgrades he had. Most all were bolt ons.

After the even we were doing some timed fun runs. I had set the FTD that day in my highly modded FC. I will get back to my FC in a second. Lets say my best time was a 1:22 in the FC with sticky tires on it. I was running Victoracers at the time.


Dad asks me if I want to toss his FD around, I said sure. I take 3 runs in it getting a feel for its limits. My last run was a 1:23 in it with street tires on it.

My FC had coil overs, adjustable shocks, sway bars, adjustable end links, I had corner balanced it, moved the battery and chose a singe exhaust in order to better balance the car. It has been aligned with me in it and the sway bars were adjusted with me in it. In other words, over the top modifications.

I jumped into an FD with a stock suspension and almost bested my best time in the FC.... with street tires!!

There was a time when I had both my FC and R3 together. I told everyone the R3 had a much better suspension than my FC. My FC rode like a buck board and was really harsh, the R3 was silky smooth and supple compared to the FC.

Rail with the R3 and it just came into itself, it was a delight to toss around very predicable and after the swaybar and alignment very easy to steer with your right foot.

The FC was probably faster, probably cornered better, and you could really feel what was going on, but it was brutal.

Part of the reason I sold my FC was because it was sitting a lot, the RX8 was getting driven, by me, more often.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/n-jS.../i-SnNbpWt.jpg

I never cared for the styling of the 8 but the 7 mk3 was one of my favorite cars ever.

Because while the LS motor is just about the best, most robust, reliable pushrod V-8 ever made (and this is coming from a MOPAR guy), the cars in which they are trapped tend to really suck. That, and this swap seems like a relatively inexpensive, fun way to get an RX with a blown motor on the road again. And, according to my buddy, the thing was getting around the track with the best of them. Maybe a (relatively) cheap GT3 or Z06 killer, if you are into that kind of thing.

lol....

Congrats on the new Batmobile, Bruce.....;)

I used to be so against people doing this swap, now I do not care, let em have fun.

I have a build I want to do, I want to buy a Factory Five Cobra kit and drop a 20B rotary in it. I am not sure if I want to go turbo or not, I think the raucous ear bleeding sound of a non turbo 20B would be more fun. Except a mildly tuned turbo 20B can make 550 HP without breaking a sweat, push em and it can make 700HP.

Some day. Some day.

I love a rotary engine over a piston any day, my personal preference. I like how linear the rotary pours on the power and the 8-9K redline is so addicting. In a very light car a torque monster V8 doesn't make sense to me.

There was a guy with a LSx swapped 944 that would come to our AX events, his car was really good at drifting and making tire smoke. Not much else. He could never get the back end to hook up.

Plus tuning a rotary is 100X more challenging and takes a lot of research, decisions, and patience. I really miss my FC, it was a monster of a car, I think the reason I got rid of it was because it could get you in trouble so easy.

Speaking as a 944 owner, even with the stock motor the 944 does not do a good job of putting power down. The car just was not designed for that.

Maybe it needs a rotary. :D

Jeff, most rotary enthusiasts premix with their gas. It’s a safety and longevity measure, it adds extra lubrication for the apex seals and protects you if the oil metering pump fails. One of the biggest misconceptions is that rotaries burn oil because they are crap. They burn oil by design for internal engine lubrication. I have no doubt that the 787B fuel was premixed, and it won Le Mans.

I think the “LSX all the things” movement is stupid because if I want a car with an LSX I’ll buy a Corvette. To each their own and I love a good hot rod, but in a car like the RX8 you’ll throw off the weight distribution and handling. Yes they make great power, and power can overcome a lot, but if you want huge HP you’re looking at the wrong car. Much like the flat six is a great fit for a 911, the rotary fits well with the character of the RX8.

Rotary Miata always intrigued me. Got a ride in a rotary swapped 510, practically a religious experience.