Pelican Parts Forums - Need Espresso machine recommendations

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zakthor (Post 10143705)

I think this thread some folks really aren't familiar with what good espresso actually tastes like. That nespresso pod stuff... guys... that isn't espresso either. Sure its a tasty convenient coffee beverage... The starbucks barista machine... pressurized portafilter, you have no control of brew pressure until you try a real espresso grind and find out the machine can't even reach 9 bar.

I would really steer clear of ANY auto machines. First because "full auto" is not to the point of replacing a barista, there's too much variation in beans and grind. And second because all that mechanical automation will not be serviceable by mortals.

I have friends with full auto machines and none make anything I'd call espresso. Yes it makes a small coffee with the push of a button but I'd take simple melitta cone over it any day.

If you really think you want to dip your toes in espresso you should first find a good coffee shop and see if its something you'll pay for. Honestly compare the great shots they pull with the nasty drizzle you get from a jura. Or look at pictures on the interwebs of what good shots look like. Good crema...

There are big parts of the country/world where the knowledge just isn't there, you're SOL to even taste the good stuff. Second, the beans for great espresso are expensive. Probably the best beans cost me $0.50/shot and we probably spend $400/year just on beans. If I lived without access to great beans I'd probably not even use the espresso machine because it makes bad beans taste even worse. Sometimes wife comes home with crap from grocery store and I just go without coffee until I can get more good beans.

I have owned an expobar brewtus 2 for about 15 years now, was $1400 new and I've probably spent $500 on parts during that time, new brew pump, new heating elements, two control boards, some pressure stats, brew screens, etc. This same machine is sold as "Rocket" brand from seattle coffee gear, and might be rebranded elsewhere. Its been "reliable" and easily fixed at home. Its literally just plumbing.

We use it daily. Was a huge life improvement for me - there seems to be something in good espresso that picks me up in a way that drip doesn't - it isn't caffine but some other something. Shrug. I have friends with more expensive machines (GS3) but they don't make better espresso. The grinder is seriously important. With the brewtus we've had a starbucks barista grinder, a Nuovo simonelli grinta, a mazzer super jolly and for past 4 years a mazzer robur. The mazzers were both purchased used and seem to have appreciated in value - they never wear out and are easy to resell. Probably the robur is the best purchase I made since we got the brewtus, very stable, grind very rarely needs adjustment and its quiet and super fast. If you have space and money I highly recommend it.

The espresso is really convenient, I have machine on timer so its ready to go in the morning, steamed milk takes about 2 minutes, shots are about 45 seconds apart, then 5 minutes to clean up. Every weekend I give machine and grinder a more thorough cleaning, takes 45 minutes or so. Otherwise the tar will really load up. Melitta I need to wait for water to reach temp, then brewing takes time and attention.

Honestly for me a great cup of single cone melitta (drip/pourover) is a close second to espresso. I'm not a fan of French press because of the fines in the cup - it tastes great if I drink the coffee right away or filter it after brewing but that is too much trouble. I don't like the taste the fines impart to the cup over time.

I think best approach is to buck up and buy a reasoable grinder (The sette 30 above is reasonable cheap grinder) and get a kettle with digital temp control. Then play around with good beans and temperature and see what that does for your life.

I run a Salvatore. Hand built in Solvang CA by an expat Italian. Mine even has my name inside. Not that the name inside makes the bean nectar taste any better. Bought in 2003 now it would cost about 2300. Nice machine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aigel (Post 10144449)

IMHO that french roast from Costco is burnt. Too dark. Try something medium. Try Lavazza Espresso Gran Crema (Amazon).

I am well traveled including France and Italy and don't taste a noticeable difference between my auto espresso and something they make in the birth place of the drink. But I can't say I have had them back to back either.

G

Allow me to completely discredit myself...

Massive exceptions but I had to look pretty hard to find good coffee in big parts of Italy and France. Color me shocked. Especially with how snooty everyone is. I think root problem is that customers don’t want to pay for good beans, frankly the coffee was bad before it was ground. believe it or not many baristas didn’t know how to fill the portafilter, a monkey could do better. I mostly stopped drinking coffee while there (with some massive exceptions in bologna)

Birthplace of drink - clearly there was a time when espresso was a thing in Italy, there’s cafes here that pull insanely good coffee on 100 year old Italian machines, but in Italy today you’ve nailed it... it mostly tastes like lavazza from a full auto machine, generally machine is too hot. no wonder folks in Europe pay extra for nestle instant coffee.

Best coffee I had overseas was a cup of drip in bkk, at Siam center? Top floor they served pourover. Was a blend of Sumatra and some Thai bean. Damn that was a cup for the ages. Billowy fruit, pepper, big body but smooth as anything. Only as I was leaving did I realize it was Starbucks!!! 🙀 Course that single cup of drip cost $4, which is a good meal for 2 in bkk.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1534425928.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast_e_man (Post 10143024)

We put in a built-in Miele machine about 6 years ago during our kitchen remodel. Plumbed in a water supply, dedicated 110VAC circuit. It's really nice. No clue how many cups of coffee we've brewed, so I can't say what the amortized cost is per cup of coffee. It's been trouble free, no issues. My wife takes care of the periodic cleaning, descaling, etc. She loves it, and she's worth it, so everyone's happy! ;)

That's what I was thinking of but the counter model. I have two friends with the built in Miele who like them but I know they've both had to repair/replace over the years.

https://www.amazon.com/Miele-CM6350-Countertop-Machine-Obsidian/dp/B075RN23QM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1534447876&sr=8-3&keywords=miele%2Bcoffee%2Bmachine&dpID=41ZPlc0c% 252BqL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1

But then after reading zakthor's post I think we need to play around with different methods of making coffee to really find out what we like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMiller (Post 10142059)

i have one you can have...just pay shipping. i no longer can consume the caffeine so it goes unused.. I really enjoyed it at one time... pm if interested

Mike sent me his a few weeks ago and it's taken me about 2 to figure out how to make a good espresso: Grinds in half way, tamp hard, grinds in to full and go. Definitely a good double shot at 3pm when I need it most.

Thank you Mike, part of what makes this community so great!

hard to beat the repeatability and consistent quality produced by the Miele coffee machines- either a built in air counter top version producing consisent Creama - everytime - the Germans got it figured out//

I know this is completely subjective but those of you who have $2K+ machines, or even $1K machines, what does a great espresso mean to you vs. a $500 machine or dedicated coffee house or very high end restaurant?

I've had 5 "professional" espressos at local coffee houses. 4 have been decent, one was just not that great and none have bowled me over. Have experimented with my older Saeco which makes as good or better a cup than any of the coffee houses with $5000 machines.

I cook a lot, French, etc. and have a refined palette. I use a French press to start the day.

I have yet to have an awesome espresso and am dying to have one again.

What are your thoughts?

Combination of beans, water, machine, and process.

Took us months to find the beans we liked and that worked well in the machine.

There is no magic answer. Takes time and testing.

My experience with cheaper machines has been that they do not have the pressure or temperature stability to produce a consistently good shot of espresso.
My old inexpensive Saeco could be manipulated in such a way that you could pull a shot with ok crema, but it required running the pump first for just a second, which pumped a little cold water in to the boiler and tricked the thermostat in to turning on the heater sooner.

I am thinking more and more it's only going to come down to the beans. I have my packing/tamping down. Fill half, tamp hard, fill 3/4, tamp light. That produces a good cup.

the crema the machine puts out is great. I turn the machine on, put the cup in and let it sit for 10 minutes. The coffee it puts out is good, it's just not the flavor I can remember, which I think must be the beans then.

Going to the North End (Italian restaurant nirvana) this weekend, will try at least 2 restaurants.

There is every chance this older Saeco will put out the espresso I want when I find the right beans.

Beans and grind and tamp and temp and....

Start with beans. I have $$ into my setup, cant belive it really and dont want to think about it. But it makes damn good coffee. When I have fresh beans. :)

Fresh beans and clean water are a big part.

I think you can get there with great beans and clean water and an -ok machine.

If a more expensive machine is more expenseive because of the guts that’s awesome. If it’s just bells and whistles then .... you know.

A machine with a good pump and a good size boiler and a metal group cup will get you closer. Consistency of temp and pressure through the whole pull. Machines with plastic group cups wil have a hard time.

As mentioned if you do a blank pull before you actually run your shot you will get those water lines and the cup up to temp.

The nicer stuff is all about consistency. You dont waste (fresh!) beans since its the same grind every time. No dicking with the grinder, if something is off its a minor change or your beans are stale. Same goes for pre infusion, temp... You can pull shots over and over again instead of one at a time and then futzing around between. When the machine is up to temp I just have to keep the reservoir full, dont have a plumbed machine. All adds up to good to great shots every time instead of mostly good shots or let it cool down/heat up then try again.

On topic - can anyone recommend their favorite beans? I recently blended two for a very favorable result. I would prefer to just settle on one bean.

I prefer a blend for espresso, and try to avoid anything too fruity. (I'll save the single origin stuff for pour overs)

I use Stumptown Hair Bender.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1539815386.jpg

This showed up on my feed this morning.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1539816196.jpg

Maybe I should post this in the cafe racer thread.

I have a seaco XS vapore from Costco. Fully automatic and pulls a decent shot. Agree that beans do make a difference.this is the third machine I have gone thru and before I had a manual machine. It goes on sale at Costco every once in a while. I got my last one two yrs ago at t giving

After reading this slowly and carefully Im wondering if I ever had a really good espresso.

Shawn... Do you have a place you recommend around town?

Hey Felipe, sadly, no I don't. I'm going to the North End this weekend though as part of the quest. Also a cannoli or 2 and some Regina pizza.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 (Post 10218943)

the crema the machine puts out is great.

There is every chance this older Saeco will put out the espresso I want when I find the right beans.

Hi Shaun,

I'm enjoying your search to get a great cup of espresso from that Saeco.

I wish I still had a 911 to send you to restore with your attention to detail!

Best,