The success of toxic people

[Shaun @ Tru6]

My own experience, 15 years ago worked in Corporate America, best job I ever had while working for someone else. Tons of money doing nothing. For two years it was amazing. Third year, I started to interact more with the C-suite. And it all went downhill. I brought in more money and more new money than anyone else and that started to cause friction with other C-execs. One meeting set up to iron out issues, the lying was so pervasive I just quit right then and there. In fact, looking back, the whole 3rd year was like some insane high school themed film noir.

Have talked with friends and they confirm, most execs they know aren't there on merit but on toxicity.

Yes? No? Shades of grey?

[wdfifteen]

Not my limited experience. The two most toxic people in my organization got shown the door. Both managed to leave with a pocketful of cash - the price of getting rid of them. The other execs were there on merit and made the growth of the Corp a priority. Yes on lying and agendas that had nothing to do with the company. Some people suck.
But my Corp was small.

[Tervuren]

It rains on the good and the bad farmers without prejudice.

If someone is truly toxic, the organization around them will be limited, they build their own ceiling.

A real issue is that when an organization leaves the small business size, the top is no longer in a position to know and correct problem people. They are dependent on the layers beneath for information.

It is a tough job at the top.

[LWJ]

We had one. He got fired. Chronic liar and thief.

[varmint]

You need to get out more. Toxic people exist in all social classes and professions.

But I do believe Los Angeles is their Mecca.

[Tervuren]

There are two guys in specific in all my work experience that if I knew what I know now and had known how happy everyone else became after they were gone I would have spoken up the chain of command.

Time got rid of them.

Both had different ideas of their worth from what they did.

One had a you are fired, "you can't fire me, I quit" type instance.

[Craig T]

From my experience, I agree. Getting to VP or SVP in a Fortune 500 (or even middle-market) requires proven performance...Especially in P&L "line jobs" like sales, business development, and M&A. To go from there to C-Suite requires guile and vicious politics. Staying in a C-Suite means being good and dirty politics. With staff jobs like HR, you have to be ruthless at politics from the start.

I was VP of Strategic Development for a multi-$BB diagnostic company. I had a big win on an M&A deal that the CFO said could never happen. I was called in by the CEO (a Cornell MD and NYU MBA) and she screamed at me about something she said I had emailed the CFO. I asked to see the email. The CFO had edited my original email, the little fu@k! I walked straight out of the CEO's office, back into mine, and printed the original email. She was blown away. That's the type of dirty dealings that happen at the top. How many times had he done that that nobody discovered. Two years later when I left to start my own M&A firm, he was STILL the CFO

[Icemaster]

We really should get a beer and talk. BTDTBTFTS.

Over the past 15 years I'd say the balance is 75/25 toxic to healthy. In the cases where the leadership at the C level is benevolent, the subordinates were a basket case as they jockeyed for position/favor/visibility, their behavior cascades downstream as it's seen as the de-facto standard and accepted as normal. There's usually someone screening the C level's playing the "everthing's GREAT!!! Look at everything we've done!" game as they pull out the carpets to hide the bodies. C Level's are blissfully ignorant or complicit in that they don't ask the right questions.

The worst case of it I experienced culminated when I asked the VP of HR how many more were going to quit, and whether anyone was actually reading the exit interviews. Chief instigator was gone two days later. But...it didn't end, and I hear all these years later it still hasn't. It was textbook sociopathic behavior.

It was an invaluable life lesson, once burned you know what to look for and I saw it in damn near every client I worked with thereafter, which made it easy to adapt and prevent **** from raining down on my staff or myself. Most of the time. In the times it didn't I had enough tricks and ammo in my pockets to send the subtle message that it's in everyones best interests to play nice and let everyone get on with their jobs, they can take credit for the success and pat themselves the back after we're done, paid and gone. There are also times where you just have to walk away and nuke them from orbit.

Point being, they do exist in all classes and at all levels, the higher up you go the more sociopathic and narcissistic the behavior becomes. Toxicity is really a way of life unfortunately for a lot of folks, the ones who are the most successful know when to turn it on and off. Kind of like a broad spectrum herbicide vs. one that only kills dandelions.

I've done a lot of reading on this, understanding motivations and behavior pays off well when dealing and managing the irrational personalities, better allows one to provide high cover for ones staff and cohorts.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by varmint

You need to get out more. Toxic people exist in all social classes and professions.

But I do believe Los Angeles is their Mecca.

I'd say that it's Washington DC at the moment.

[masraum]

THere are people that can get by without having the necessary skills, but are able to schmooz and snow and BS and backstab. Some of them get farther up the ladder than others. Usually, but not always, someone above them figures it out. In the right position in the wrong company they can last a lifetime.

This is the other side of the coin from folks that are highly skilled and very good at their job (but not necessarily schmoozing), but their merit not seen and they aren't recognized or promoted figuratively or literally. I've seen that many times too. They usually end up leaving on their own, but not always. Hell, sometimes they are even laid off.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

I've done a lot of reading on this, understanding motivations and behavior pays off well when dealing and managing the irrational personalities, better allows one to provide high cover for ones staff and cohorts.

Any recommended reading?

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by speeder

I'd say that it's Washington DC at the moment.

At the moment?

LMAO!!

[jwasbury]

So then I must be toxic and have no merit according to the OP since I was promoted to CFO 8 years ago (after 5 years with the company).

I guess it was my toxicity that I should credit for this rather than my knowledge, dedication, ability to lead my department, hard work, etc.

Thanks for clearing that up for me

[911boost]

My experience has not been like the OP at all.

+1 to Jacob.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

My own experience...

Have talked with friends and they confirm, most execs they know aren't there on merit but on toxicity.

Yes? No? Shades of grey?

I couldn't agree more. It's not about talent but charm.
If you can win the admiration of higher manager you'll always do well and that manager will "look after" you.

Upper management are always looking for sycophants...

[porsche4life]

Having got a fresh set of bus tracks from a high level person on my back... yes that’s a pretty good summation Shaun. Good news is now we know how to deal with that person, and my team is very strategic at dealing with folks like that. We play the long long game while they play the short game.

[Jims5543]

Fresh out of school I worked for a larger Corporation on Long Island, I had a 12 month contract job there, I saw right away as a stupid kid it was total BS there. Was glad to leave.

When I lived in Florida I landed another contract gig at a huge Corporation, more of the same, glad that gig ended.

Went to work for mom and pops after that, such a better atmosphere. Except when the owner sucked.

In my early 30's took a corporate gig, against my better judgement, in a 100 person corp. 8 months in I was ready to GTFO.

I laid plans over the next 4 months to start my own company, I left that place after 16 months, that was in 1996.

Never looked back.

In my three experiences with larger corps, I hated every minute. Way too much energy being spent on the politics of the places.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Having got a fresh set of bus tracks from a high level person on my back... yes that’s a pretty good summation Shaun. Good news is now we know how to deal with that person, and my team is very strategic at dealing with folks like that. We play the long long game while they play the short game.

This is brilliant! Pick your battles boys and girls.

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by masraum

Any recommended reading?

'Blink' by Gladwell, 'Outliars' is also a good read although more towards understanding origins of expertise.

'Subtle Art of not Giving a Fuch', 'Emotional Maturity 2.0', 'Leadership & Self Deception', 'Rework'. 'Why we Do What We Do: Understand motivation and emotion'

I always fall back to 'Art of War'. If you do have to end up in battle, metaphorically, this can philosophically and practically prepare you.

The best one's for me are Blink and Sun Tzu, one helps you recognize the value of instincts, the other helps you apply and use them. I found the best written books still only provide something of a roadmap relative to understanding your experiences and help strategize on how to learn from them.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

'Blink' by Gladwell, 'Outliars' is also a good read although more towards understanding origins of expertise.

'Subtle Art of not Giving a Fuch', 'Emotional Maturity 2.0', 'Leadership & Self Deception', 'Rework'. 'Why we Do What We Do: Understand motivation and emotion'

I always fall back to 'Art of War'. If you do have to end up in battle, metaphorically, this can philosophically and practically prepare you.

The best one's for me are Blink and Sun Tzu, one helps you recognize the value of instincts, the other helps you apply and use them. I found the best written books still only provide something of a roadmap relative to understanding your experiences and help strategize on how to learn from them.

Today the SP 500 hit an intraday all time high just like I said it would in June...be testing the "previous high in January."

And what did Sun say about knowing yourself and your enemy? You can't learn that shyte in a book you have to work the principles out for yourself. That takes time effort and desire. Toil long enough and you can become a master Jedi to. lol

"End up in battle." Say what? 'Everything I do is tactical and serves strategic goals.