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The Model 3 looks like it has great visibility. Is that correct, madcorgi? |
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Otherwise cool car. |
Maybe the blank front surface is driving home the point that there’s no oxygen-breathing engine lurking behind that surface. Just electricity.
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VW doesn't even have a 2018 E-golf here, the bolt has range but is ugly, the Nissan is ugly, the I8 is ugly, the Audi is gonna be 75K minimum... If anyone did something like an E-GTi I'd be in as a beater. Right now my best propect is a Jag E-pace and they are also too pricey for a beater. Profit: I don't know.. I assume that a group like VW that shares platforms might be able to line up economies of scale Tesla cannot touch, and panel gaps that don't let sunlight in. Batteries though, might be expensive no matter what... I'm genuinely puzzled it's taking this long when Tesla proved the viability of the cars in 2012, I would think at 35-45K 250 w/miles and "that acceleration", there would be a big market... |
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I echo Deschodt. If the car actually sold at $35K or so instead of the $50K plus they're asking I'd consider one...but the CEO would have to act like a CEO for at least awhile and the company would have to have shown a profit. I'm not going to buy a car from an unstable company. Whining or not that's a factor for me. It's like buying a Rover in the US.....(and I'm old enough to remember people who did). We're actually considering the Golf Sport Wagon at $32K (retail) with a manual rather than any of the electrics or hybrids. However I really do think the car is good looking- but I'm not a fan of the interior. I think the screen should be in front of the driver. Looking down to the right to check anything isn't too ergonomic or safe IMO. Was surprised to see how low it was. |
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-vows-to-overtake-tesla-with-worlds-largest-electric-car-fleet-1520955348 Maybe not 6 months, but pretty soon there will be more options. |
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Cairns--we have a 2017 Golf Sportwagen and we love it. It's my wife's daily, so it has an automatic, but it's great to drive. And it will carry a ton--it's about 90% of what I need a pickup for. |
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The issue with the motorized vents, they seem like an unnecessary gimmick. Like the oversized touch screen. It seems like a good place for a cost reduction! If they cannot get these things going quickly, GM, Ford, VW, etc. will eventually catch up. I'm glad your daughter is happy with her purchase. And If they really were $30K, and comparable to other similar $30K sedans, I'd consider one. I wish Ford would put together a serious plug in Hybrid. |
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IIRC, to help with Tesla’s cash flow, the $50k tarted-up version of the Model 3 is being delivered before the $35k basic version of the car hits the street.
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I am not sure if this is still the case, but at least at one point the Tesla business model was to dominate Li-ion battery manufacture through economies of massive scale. I believe any major car manufacture can duplicate a high end electric car with moderate investment. I think duplicating huge scale battery production is substantially more difficult with a longer outlook. I don't know if it will go to plan but if Tesla can make batteries substantially cheaper than other companies can source them for that is a big market advantage.
I am electric car curious and would love to own one at some point. |
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GM have a product that is close, they are not too far away from having a battery that is significantly better than the BOLT currently has. Very few companies are as nimble as Tesla. I am working on two vehicle battery programs in Detroit right now. The design delays, the launch length, and the lack of 'push' within the organization are shocking. Tesla has kept a LOT of his technology not just in the USA, but in his factories. He is never far from a problem. My customers are a long way away and their factory will be in the third world. Cheaper, but slower. Tesla is first to market, he has proven (to most people) that e-cars are a viable and fun car (or second car). We are going to be at Stage II very soon: who can do it cheapest. If you are one of the big boys you better design out all the costs you can. This will be an epic battle. Does it end with a Chinese car ordered off Amazon? |
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I agree Matt, there is no panacea. You can't be out front, fast, flawless, and cheap.
And in the end no one will care that Tesla paved the way. Blackberry had a really great phone for the time...Tesla is more Blackberry, less Ford. I also think Musk made one critical error: he should have invested in the drivetrain and software, then contracted out the suspension, body, and assembly. Someone like Magna could be running the plant at a fixed price per vehicle, and Musk would be providing the differentiator. Too bad he's not as s mart as me. |
Yes, the old buy vs. build conundrum. Tesla is very heavily vertical. I got an "employee tour" several years way back when their factory was less paranoid. Saw where the big rolls of aluminum come in one end and the finished cars glide out the other. Watched large numbers of folks (probably all illegals:D) assembling battery packs in expen$ive Freemont CA. It's great to have production right there at your door, until it isn't. Apple has the sense to send its production to Foxconn, where low-paid workers jump into suicide nets during breaks.
Musk is a classic case of where an entrepreneur's creation outgrows him. It gets really troublesome when you decide to use other peoples' money to fund your dream. Once you stumble, the shareholders and PE guys push you out. That's why Musk wants to take it private. Less "help" from those pesky investors. |
I, for one, still miss my Blackberry. No good for internet browsing, but I could hammer out emails without even looking at the keyboard.:)
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I hate leasing and prefer to keep cars longterm, but we leases a Model S in April of 2017 for several reasons, one being the long term viability of Tesla. If they were to go bankrupt, we wouldn't be holding an orphaned car, however remote that possibility is. Second, with all the upgrades coming to their cars, we wanted to be able to get the next upgraded model in three years time, kind of like iPhones.
Like others here, I love the instant power, the large display, and the ability to avoid gas stations (when driving locally). I look forward to having other manufactures join the e-race. Their lack of offerings is actually holding me back from trading in my 2012 BMW. |
I recently discovered the shared garage where I keep my Porsche is now next to a new Tesla..Model 3? There is NO badging on it what so ever... But like the Model S , it looks good. "S" is for sexy.. At the very least he made good looking electric cars, which is what the industry needed. Tesla designs are pretty great, though maybe not that Mini van-thing, what's that the Model X? Ah, but those doors (!) gull wing .. you know people are fools for these doors, weird & faddish. I actually miss the Tesla Roadster that was my personal fave, w/ a nice Lotus body, bet that was a hoot to drive.
Disclaimer : Never driven anything electric, yet. Only ridden in Leaf, Volt and Priuses.. |
That most likely was a 3. They have no external badging.
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Tesla is circling the drain.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/tesla-sinks-8percent-after-bizarre-musk-podcast-appearance-cao-exit.html |
Not good news.....don't understand why the guy can't just go to work and keep his private life private. Another chief executive left (after just being hired) and he's smoking pot and drinking whiskey for publicity....
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-07/tesla-tumbles-after-chief-accounting-officer-quits-after-just-one-month |
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If you are sleeping at the job-site, then you are doing it wrong. |
After that pod cast, all I could think of was Delorean and the giant bags of cocaine. I went as Delorean for halloween that year.
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The issue with the above is similar to the Apple events (Jobs1.1), Tesla is living off the vision and subsequent believers of Musk(at all levels of Tesla), he is a deity to that team. The board will be shocked at what they're left with when he's gone. But I agree he will be gone soon.
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There is a reasonably priced sensible looking and practical electric car on the market, the Hyundai Ioniq, oh, and its SUV style sister the Kia Niro. And the Hyundai Kona EV order book has just been opened in the UK,
300 mile range for £35K or 200 mile for £30K ish. |
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Electric cars were a bit dorky until EM came along, Prius That Honda thing.. Leaf not nice designs. They are also by price-point, a bit elitist, but imagine, at one time even Ford's 'Model A' was a trinket for the wealthy. Seems everyone wants to see E. Musk fail: The 'Big Three', the oil industry etc.
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Wait wait... there is a difference between wanting him to fail and EXPECTING him to fail.
A full-up electric car simply cannot compete Economically until a better battery tech comes along. That is not to say people won't PAY for unicorn farts. -they will! Clearly. |
I will note that if the cost of IC engined cars or fuel can be bureaucratically pushed to extremes then a full-up electric car simply can compete "Economically." But of course, that falls into "False economy."
In 2009 Obama gave Tesla Billions in guaranteed loans, and electric cars got massive tax credits at purchase. - saved their butts. |
Billions = $465M. Repaid with interest. Another view on this...https://electrek.co/2016/11/25/tesla-subsidies-big-three-oil-industry/
Musk and his shtick were effective for a number of years, but, IMO, that’s really not a thing nowadays. People are just interested in the cars, and If Musk completely burns out to produce them...oh well. I see Model 3s everyday here in SoCal. Not yet to the level of Model Ss, but still, a fair number. It shouldn’t be long before the cheaper (base) Model 3s are being cranked out of their factory. Great comment, petrolhead611, about the Hyundai and Kia EVs. I’ve seen them around, but not to a great extent. I totally forgot about them. |
The Hyundai looks good. I also like the Chevy sedan.. what is that? the Volt? My sister her husband and their kid ALL have one: Red, White and Blue .. not on purpose ..maybe..but it brings up a good point about Tesla, also made in the USA. Lots of jobs around a car industry.
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