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Why on earth would you want to take your family to Cuba when there are so many wonderful places in the world to visit that aren't run by despots?

The anniversary of Che Guevara's death was two days ago I believe. Look up the atrocities he committed before you decide to support, directly or indirectly, his successors. He had no problem murdering children BTW.
Old 10-09-2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fintstone View Post
Yes, it is quite sad that other nations and their citizens have not supported U.S. efforts to end the brutal regime and restore civil rights to the citizens of Cuba. I guess their tropical vacations are just more important to them.
Every nation in the world is interested in their own self interests, all depends on what's in it for each particular country.

I've traveled with my wife and then with our kids to many countries that don't have the best human rights then or in their nations recent past.

We've felt safer and received a warmer welcome than many developed countries we've visited. We've found the local people are grateful that we have made the effort to visit and appreciate that we want to spend our money with them.

Yes some of our money filters up to the despots but most of our money actually goes to the people.

We chose to go to these places as we want to see as much of the world with our own eyes so we make up our own opinions about each country rather than based on the opinions of people who have never been anywhere.

OP, if you like the idea of visiting Cuba, go, and go soon! Once Havana becomes the next Nassau or Cancun the charm of the place will be gone for ever as it will be full of obese American buffet eating gutter trash crew ship passengers
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Last edited by Captain Ahab Jr; 10-09-2018 at 03:51 PM.. Reason: edited for accuracy :)
Old 10-09-2018, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cairns View Post
Why on earth would you want to take your family to Cuba when there are so many wonderful places in the world to visit that aren't run by despots?

The anniversary of Che Guevara's death was two days ago I believe. Look up the atrocities he committed before you decide to support, directly or indirectly, his successors. He had no problem murdering children BTW.

It’s a fantastic cultural experience, the Cuban people are wonderful ( none of them has killed a child, as far as I know) , and why not support the people who are living there, not oppressing anyone ?

This is a car forum, so don’t overlook the hundreds of fantastic cars from the 40’s and late 50’s.
They are a feast for the eyes, and unrivaled anywhere in the World.
Art on wheels everywhere you look.

These PARF guys keep saying it’s illegal, but that is just wrong.
You just need to follow some simple rules.
One of the categories that qualifies for travel, for now, is the People to People program, which simply means you spend time interacting with the Cuban people.
That can mean taking dance lessons, cooking classes, attending a lecture, a wide variety of activities.
If you are traveling by a cruise line, they will help you plan your days.
If you go with a group, they will also have activities.

It’s also fun to snub your nose at the whole attempt to limit our travel options by going from Canada or Mexico and book an Airbnb , and set up your own Peope to People trip.

International travel is booming, but travel to the US has declined in the last two years, ever since we installed our own despot.

Last edited by Ziggythecat; 10-09-2018 at 05:27 PM..
Old 10-09-2018, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fintstone View Post
I would not expect that there are a lot of multinationals in Dalton GA (but you never know). That said, if I were to ask advice about vacationing in a foreign country, if it were illegal to do so, that would be the very first thing I would hope someone would tell me. Many of the following posts are misleading and false (claiming it to be legal).

Yes, it is quite sad that other nations and their citizens have not supported U.S. efforts to end the brutal regime and restore civil rights to the citizens of Cuba. I guess their tropical vacations are just more important to them.
Stop trying to scare everyone.
Travel is legally allowed under several options for Americans.

Royal Caribbean and the other US owned cruise ships sail under the rules of US law.
The notion that they are transporting passengers there, illegally, week after week is ludicrous.
Would you condemn travel and business with Russia or China , or Saudi Arabia ?
No shortage of civil rights violations there.

Go back to PARF where everyone is afraid.
Old 10-09-2018, 05:25 PM
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Ah what the heck. Personal freedom and individual rights are so over-rated.
Arbitrary imprisonment, censorship, political executions, forced labor (slavery), lack of religious freedom, restriction of assembly, torture, it's all good.

And what do you care, it's not like you had anything to do with it. Sleep well.
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sammyg2 View Post
Ah what the heck. Personal freedom and individual rights are so over-rated.
Arbitrary imprisonment, censorship, political executions, forced labor (slavery), lack of religious freedom, restriction of assembly, torture, it's all good.

And what do you care, it's not like you had anything to do with it. Sleep well.
Are you talking about Cuba, or Russia and China ?
Old 10-09-2018, 05:32 PM
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Remember, these are the people who wanted to boycott Texas because of gay marriage.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggythecat View Post
Stop trying to scare everyone.
Travel is legally allowed under several options for Americans.

Royal Caribbean and the other US owned cruise ships sail under the rules of US law.
The notion that they are transporting passengers there, illegally, week after week is ludicrous.
Would you condemn travel and business with Russia or China , or Saudi Arabia ?
No shortage of civil rights violations there.

Go back to PARF where everyone is afraid.
But not tourism...despite the fact that you claimed multiple times it is. Clearly you do not know the law...but yet you misinform others and claim to.

There is no law against a cruise ship sailing there and docking...but if you are a U.S. citizen and go there as a tourist, you break the law, not necessarily the business that transported you. They don't stop you from going, they catch you in the audit afterwards. You and all travel companies much keep detailed records up to 5 years. The maximum fine is up to $250,000 and 10 years in prison.

Is it against the law to visit Russia, China or Saudi Arabia? Not hardly. Your arguments are nonsensical.

From an article on the topic:

Travel audits expected

Meanwhile, the memorandum to strengthen U.S. policy toward Cuba that Trump recently signed in Miami says the Secretary of the Treasury will regularly audit travel to Cuba to make sure travelers are complying with regulations and aren’t traveling to Cuba for tourism.

There’s also another new twist: Treasury’s inspector general is required to provide a report to the president on how audit requirements are being implemented within 180 days of the new regulations going into effect. After that, an annual report is required.

Even under the Obama administration, travelers were required to maintain records of their Cuban travel transactions for five years. The requirement remains under Trump’s policy but lawyers and those in the travel industry say they expect much more scrutiny and most likely spot checks at airports of returning Cuban travelers.

During the administration of President George W. Bush, travel to Cuba was highly restricted and fines were assessed against travelers who violated travel regulations. The usual drill was that passengers pulled aside for additional questioning later received a letter from the Office of Foreign Assets Control asking for full details of their Cuba trip, including all receipts, said Robert Muse, a Washington lawyer who specializes in U.S.-Cuba law.

But tour operators say they are prepared for additional scrutiny. “We have a warehouse full of files,” Guild said.

“As part of our service we keep all passengers records on file for five years,” Popper said. “We always have the paperwork ready to provide to our guests, and we’re prepared to provide them with an audit-ready package if necessary.”

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article158491989.html#storylink=cpy

Go back to PARF and post your typical ignorant nonsense there.
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Last edited by fintstone; 10-09-2018 at 07:51 PM..
Old 10-09-2018, 07:43 PM
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So, you think thousands and thousands of Americans have broken the law by stepping off a cruise ship for an excursion or two ?
People to People
Thst’s the loophole they left open in order to keep the Cruise Ship lobby happy.

Do you not understand the People to People option ?
Old 10-09-2018, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggythecat View Post
So, you think thousands and thousands of Americans have broken the law by stepping off a cruise ship for an excursion or two ?
People to People
Thst’s the loophole they left open in order to keep the Cruise Ship lobby happy.

Do you not understand the People to People option ?
Changing your argument, huh? Stepping off a ship for a planned, controlled excursion is not a family vacation. LOL.

You do realize I posted a link to the rules for travel (Treasury Dept) earlier in this thread. From that link:

People-to-People Travel
In accordance with the NSPM, OFAC is requiring that (1) all people-to-people nonacademic educational travel be conducted under the auspices of an organization that is subject to U.S. jurisdiction and that sponsors such exchanges to promote people-to-people contact, and (2) such travelers be accompanied by a person subject to U.S. jurisdiction who is a representative of the sponsoring organization. Individual people-to-people nonacademic educational travel will no longer be authorized as announced by the President.
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Last edited by fintstone; 10-09-2018 at 08:17 PM..
Old 10-09-2018, 08:05 PM
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Wondering if folks are enticed by the nostalgic romance marketed as Cuba. Reality it is very much a 3rd world country by any modern standard. The world is filled with amazing places to visit that are not as political. YMMV. We loved Aruba and Grand Cayman, but there are many reefs yet to explore and have only a lifetime to see them so despite having 100% positive experience we will never revisit.
Old 10-09-2018, 08:09 PM
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From the Treasury:
CUBA TRAVEL ADVISORY
WARNING: TOUR PACKAGES FOR SCUBA DIVING, BICYCLING, HUNTING, FISHING, HIKING OR OTHER TOURIST TRAVEL IN CUBA ARE ILLEGAL
It has come to the attention of the Office of Foreign Assets
Control (“OFAC”) that certain specialty tours to Cuba that are
offered by travel agencies in third countries are marketed to
U.S travelers as being in compliance with the prohibitions of
the U.S. embargo against Cuba. These trips are usually designed
for individuals with an interest in outdoor activities, such as
scuba diving, bicycling, hunting or fishing. The sales material
often maintains that because the traveler prepays the third*
country travel agency for expenses that otherwise would be paid
by the traveler while within Cuba, such as hotels, meals, ground
transportation, equipment rental and services, etc., this type
of trip is in compliance with the applicable U.S. regulations on
travel-related transactions involving Cuba that apply to persons
subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.
This advisory is to alert U.S. travelers who participate in such
trips that engaging in prepaid arrangements for travel
expenditures otherwise prohibited by the Cuba Assets Control
Regulations, 31 CFR Part 515 (the “Regulations”), will expose
travelers to the possibility of civil monetary penalties from
OFAC. [Return to the OFAC directory and click on the button
marked LEGAL to see a copy of the Regulations.]
A Cuban vacation package that is prepaid by U.S travelers
through a travel agency located in a third country does not
qualify as “fully-hosted” travel as described in the
Regulations. This is true regardless of the type of currency
that is used to purchase the package tour. This type of trip is
simply an “all-inclusive” vacation package similar to ones
available at most resort and vacation destinations anywhere in
the world. The Regulations prohibit all transactions relating
to travel-related tourist transactions in Cuba including
prepayment in third countries for Cuba-related expenses.
U.S. travelers must take care in relying upon the Cuba travel*
related information made available by travel agencies operating
within or outside the United States as a definitive source of
information on the U.S. economic embargo against Cuba. In the
event you have any questions about travel transactions with
Cuba, please contact OFAC or carefully check the Regulations
before you engage in any activities that may be in a violation
of the law. The Regulations are the definitive statement of the
law with respect to the prohibitions of the U.S. embargo with
respect to Cuba.
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:12 PM
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Ziggy why don't you go to Cuba? Take the family and stay a few months.
Old 10-10-2018, 05:24 AM
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There is plenty of good advice to be given to the OP that pertains to his question without going on and on about ideological stances about Cuba that are particular to the USA. Perhaps those of you so inclined to take it to PARF?
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:02 AM
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When I went in '99 it was sort of illegal unless it was for education, I learned a lot believe me.. The wording of the law is vague, then it was illegal to spend money there, ie. US dollars but not to visit... How do you go somewhere and not spend money? I managed well since I was flat broke at the time and a guest of my g/f's family....These strange grey areas of the world are interesting, East and West Berlin was also very austere in the 80's...btw Varmint , North Korea is not on my radar, and probably quite miserable..but pay my trip and I will go and tell you all about it. I can tell you South Korea is great, especially if you get out of Seoul to the coast or the countryside for bit, just to see the contrast, which is vast. Solid food culture all throughout S.Korea.
In general I think you should travel more and bark less. Just sayin'
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Last edited by Kraftwerk; 10-10-2018 at 09:12 AM..
Old 10-10-2018, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
I had an economics professor in college who was Cuban, got out before the purge.

He was a kind, smart, fascinating man. He inspired me to write my undergraduate thesis in economics on Cuba, pre and post Castro.

With his guidance, research and interviews with Cuban exiles there is nothing to recommend to Castro and Che other than the end of a rope.

I would love to go to Cuba and walk in those areas I read about so many years ago. I immersed myself in all things Cuban. We'll see.
So, what are you waiting for, your next life ?
Take a cruise and see what itís all about.
Old 10-10-2018, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBrewer View Post
Wondering if folks are enticed by the nostalgic romance marketed as Cuba. Reality it is very much a 3rd world country by any modern standard. The world is filled with amazing places to visit that are not as political. YMMV. We loved Aruba and Grand Cayman, but there are many reefs yet to explore and have only a lifetime to see them so despite having 100% positive experience we will never revisit.
I never saw a marketing campaign for Cuba, but nostalgia is everywhere.
It’s full of beauty as well as decay.
Same with the cars.
Many restored to a better than factory standard ( used for city tours)and plenty of cars with homemade parts, tractor and diesel engines, parts from anything adapted to fit, or fabricated from scratch, and only the ingenuity of the Cubans keeping them on the road.
Lots are used as general taxis, or handed down from generations as family treasures.
They are considered National treasures, and can not leave the country.

You can’t compare it to a beach vacation in a 5 Star resort, but that is exactly why it is so memorable.
Those trips all blend together, and there have been many,many.
Funny, but places like Turks , Grand Cayman and what I’ve read about Aruba, that lack any local culture, have been my least favorites.
Islands or destinations with a distinct local culture are always more interesting.

Last edited by Ziggythecat; 10-10-2018 at 12:22 PM..
Old 10-10-2018, 12:11 PM
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Go to Cuba. Bring a suitcase full of books. Bibles, ayn rand, Solzhenitsyn, Hayek, von Mises, Thomas Sowell, etc.

Hand them out to all the friendly local people. Tell us how that works out for you.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:14 PM
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To the OP: If you go, please read up a bit (pick books from both sides of the aisle - they exist in droves) on the history of Cuba, Fulgencio Batista, the Castro Brothers, Che, the 26th of July Movement, etc.

If you are just looking for a place to lie on the beach, snorkel, have some food and cocktails, there are much better places.

I'll go when Raul dies and I don't have to pretend
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ziggythecat View Post
Are you talking about Cuba, or Russia and China ?
I've been to all of these countries

One was for a dirty long weekend, one for powerboat boat racing and one for my honeymoon, really enjoyed each trip.

Does supporting so many despots me a bad person?
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:03 PM
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