Learning a new language later in life?
 

A long time ago (in the pre-internet days) I thought it would be fun to learn German. I bought a couple of books and struggled to make any real progress and gave up. Not only did verb conjugation kill me, but I couldn't figure out how to correctly pronounce words, etc.

Fast-forward 25 years or so and I decided to try again. Now, there is a whole world out there of lessons online, etc. Plus, the admin for our group is German and I have some work obligations that will have me going to Germany a few times over the next few years, so I can "practice". I also bought a textbook (Deutsch Aktuell - sehr gut, BTW), so I am making progress, but it is still hard.

Anybody else learn (or try to learn) a new language later in life? Any tips? Commiseration?

Ich habe so viel zu lernen, aber es ist Spaß...

I failed miserably at Spanish in school. In recent years as the Spanish language grows I have been thinking more and more of learning it. I looked into Rosetta stone as I thought the best way for me to learn Spanish would be while driving as it is deadtime. While researching if Rosetta stone was all it was cracked up to be I stumbled upon this video. Gave a little insight into what it takes to be able to communicate in a language vs. knowing a few words. The key is to be able communicate not to speak properly.

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We've had two, year-long exchange students from Germany.

Good experience both times but given that both were high school boys it probably cost us more in food than what we'd have paid for a private tutor.

_

I have been trying to learn French as my missus is from there. Its not easy but I'm making progress by using a few tools. I loaded the Babbel ap onto my phone and when I get a spare 15 minutes I go through an exercise. I like to cook so I subscribed to a French cooking magazine (in French) to improve my reading. Finally, I stream French TV programs and movies and use the French closed captions to train my ear as the buggers typically speak too quickly for me to understand them. Watching the programs provides a visual context.

I thought my plan was infallible.

Had a year and a half of German in school.

Then, to get some practice, I started one of those multiplayer games where you communicate constantly with other people. The game was set in Germany, so mostly native speakers. I got by using my limited knowledge plus Google translate.

The plan should have worked. I communicated (similar to social media) for several hours at a sitting. Three times a day. For nine months.

Didn't sink in. I'm just too old. And dense!

Funny one time of the Germans asked if I could improve my communication. Then the other German said "He's English you fool". I learned some profanity as well.

This is an excellent point. I am under no illusion that I will ever speak German fluently, but it would be nice to be able to simply communicate at some level. My admin points out that even if I don't conjugate a verb correctly, she knows what I mean most of the time. That is the most important thing.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a special trick that will allow one to gain proficiency really quickly. It just takes time.

It's a good video to watch. While this video is about Spanish I think what he is doing can be used for any language. At 6:43 he does a video chat with a guy verse in six languages and doesn't speak any with an accent. The guy created the "Mimic method" of learning a language. There is other good info in the video as well.

I started teaching myself German when I was 13 because my then middle school didn't offer it. My German is now almost as good as my English and I get to use it for work almost every day. But I still listen to German news and talk radio on an iPhone app to keep the chops up. It's never been easier to learn with all that's available online. I watched a long series on German job interviews for my current job, spent countless hours on that. When the Skype interview came, it consisted of, "How much do you need and when can you start?" But it was fun research.

I will have to watch that video for sure. The crazy thing is that there is an almost unlimited amount of content out there in almost any language. I am also a huge music fan, so I have been watching youtube videos of German bands (mostly Sportfreunde Stiller und Die Toten Hosen!!). That really helps with pronunciation and phrasing.

I've only been doing this for a few months, but it is amazing how much one can learn. Having said that, the more I learn, the more obvious it is how little I know...

Also be sure to check out some German movies with subtitles (English or German). That way you'll hear how real people speak in normal conversations, which is a lot different than what you'll hear on news shows and radio. German movies are so intelligent and thought-provoking, they'll make you feel dumb for having ever enjoyed an American movie.

What Mr Lee says, for Spanish they have the soap opera shows with the ridiculously hot women

And the Spanish channel weather ladies are amazing too.

Most US residents, and I am referring mainly to US born, don't know as much speaking English as any German living here. I was an English major and learn every day. I wish I could write like many of those that I read. And If I could write that well, I'm sure my speaking habits would improve.

I am half Spanish and took Spanish in HS AND college.

I can now find the beach and order a beer.

This is not a proud post. I am feo americano in search of a caravan...

Nothing takes the place of practicing with native speakers, if you can get the opportunity. My Spanish and miniscule amount of French isn't nearly as good as decades ago since I never use it anymore. But I remember speaking to people in Mexico and Spain and going, "Wow, OK that's how they say it." The good thing is you almost never forget it afterwards. Truthfully I had the impression I learned language and math easier as I got older - up tp a point.

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I am learning Vietnamese. I've also said I was too old, didn't have brain for it, etc. But, I started looking in to HOW to learn a new language and found some help. Several videos by polyglots revealed that they used memory joggers to help learn new words. For instance, to have in Vietnamese is "có," which is pronounced "caw." When that word fist popped up, I pictured a crow who "had" my keys and was flying away with them saying "caw."

After a couple of days, I didn't need those training wheels to remember that word. Yeah, this seems like a bit of mental gymnastics, but multiple people who have learned many languages explained they use similar tactics to remember new words. Just repeating via flashcards isn't very effective. There needs to be some context... and motivation helps.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1545329824.jpg

What a lovely, beautiful woman, Lee.

A friend of mine married a Vietnamese woman...he said it helped, in his mind, to sing the language.

Playa is beach, right?

Or: làm mắc cạn

A pretty woman can teach me anything.

Oh! Forgot to mention... I suggest trying the Duolingo app. It's free and very effective. Commit to 15-30 minutes per day, every day.

I have seen Duolingo and I think I have stumbled into it on occasion thru search results. I am not exactly sure how it works, but ought to check it out.

I think my biggest risk is that I have no reason to learn German other than I think it would be fun. That is probably good and bad. The bad is there is a risk that I'll just give up, but the good part is that I can do this at my own pace and can learn whatever I want to learn. I do try to do something every day. I invent little conversations in my head and try and figure out how I would say certain things.

I am sure that no matter what, my "German" is going to be some insulting version of mismatched verb tenses and incorrect plural nouns, etc. Native speakers will stare at me in disgust. So my standard, handy response will be:

Es tut mir leid. Mein Deutsch ist unter aller Sau. ;)

THIS is the thing that polyglots have come to terms with. They know they'll do it wrong at first and have no fear of it. They find native speakers are typically patient and helpful.

My girlfriend has been surprisingly unimpressed by my attempts to learn Vietnamese. Only now that I know some words (123 of them, per Duolingo) and phrases has she begun to take interest in my interest in her native language.

Funny story. For the Lunar New Year, Vietnamese like a rice cake called bánh chưng. Vietnamese is a tonal language. The marks dictate the tone. The tone dictates the meaning. The same few letters can have multiple meanings depending on whether the tone of your voice rises, falls, is level, etc.

"Tôi ăn me." means "I eat tamarind."
"Tôi ăn mẹ" means "I eat mother."
It all depends on how you pronounce it!

So, close to the Lunar New Year my gf asks me to pick up bánh chưng from a restaurant where I was having lunch with a friend. I was on the phone with her as I pulled into the parking lot. "What are you going to get for me?" she asked. "Bánh chưng!" I replied doing my best to mimic the tones as I remembered them. She burst out laughing and said she'd send me a text and that I should just point to the word instead of trying to say it to the restaurant staff. "Is it really that bad?" I asked.

Her reply... "Well, when you say it, it sounds like you're saying, "Spread your legs!" :eek::eek::eek:

OK. That‘s hilarious.

I‘m glad German isn‘t a tonal language like that. That has got to be difficult!

Dredging up an old thread. Now that I'm "Later in life" it's time to learn a new language.

Well, at least get better at a few. Start with Spanish (always handy in my neck of the woods, I already know all the bad words). Next move to German since I can sprechen nicht so schlecht and the Wife is German.

I spend a lot of time commuting and in traffic, has anyone tried the Babbel Lifetime Plan? I think it's $320 and includes all the languages. I know it's for one person but can 2 people access the subscription?

As always, muchas gracias in advancio.

I can also order a beer and get slapped in Tijuana ....

Spanish III was the only class in college that I could NOT make an "A" in .... skated through Spanish 4 ;). "She" was NOT cute and brutal .... LONG, intensive exams and she -.5 pointed everything .... EVERYTHING :(. I made a C (highest in class) and a friend from PR made a D- (mebbe because she was cute?) ....

La Diabla .... Si :)

this will help ein bisschen..
just knock on the table when greeting your friends ( group hand shake)..
ein Bier bitte..
leck mich am ar$$..( it's lick...)
but you get the idea...
wo ist die toilette bitte..

Rika

I'm on Duolingo Spanish. But I think getting immersed is the best way... I know I'm in CA and there are tons of Spanish speakers around, they just aren't in my circle.

This is timely. I need to learn French. Wife needs to learn Italian.

You can do it but it's going to be hard, unless you're a natural at languages. But regardless, the key to learning to communicate - as opposed to learning to be perfectly correct about everything - is going to be using it often, with native speakers. This may be hard with German in Tennessee.

My mom learned Spanish in her 20s after she married my dad, first taking lessons and then using it when they would visit his family in Colombia and then when they moved to Mexico City and eventually Venezuela. The biggest part of her learning was just using it. I've spent most of my life in the US and speaking English, so I've long had a bit of a complex with Spanish, so I understand things like a fear of saying something 'wrong'. Shoving any such fears in the closet will do a lot to help you learn. People who speak a language are invariably happy to hear you trying, and don't care whether you're correct or not. They'll help you.

talk to self in your shower loud..
you have to hear it...
and as oldies we don't want to be laughed at..
German is easy ..its phonetic..
you don't know what your saying ....but can..
new word or planet....
Germans will string 9 words together..
best recomb,...
listen and laugh at self..

Rika

I have been ridiculed for my attempts to speak English my whole life ;)...

I do think you have to immerse one's self to be fluent.... back in college (when I was most adept at Spanish), I could read and write pretty good, but conversing with a native speaker ....

Naw ;)

fork in.....
Left hand...

Rika

I've been on Duolingo for over three years now and while I'm not sure I would ever feel comfortable having a conversation in Italian or now French with a native speaker, I thought I could at least read road signs, a menu, or understand some of what I heard others saying. Started in preparation for my daughter's school trip to Italy (Canceled due to COVID) and now we are going to London, Paris, and Amsterdam this June. I think Duolingo does a good job in how it reinforces the words, tense, and sentence structure.

That's my understanding. Immersion is the best way to become fluent in the shortest time. Most of us can't easily do that. Maybe for Spanish. We could probably have a one way immersion by watching TV/Movies in the language that you're trying to learn.

Don't sell yourself short. You could ask where the bathroom is too

Spanish is very nuanced depending where you are in the world
My father left Denmark for Peru after WW2. He learned Spanish real quick with full immersion.
Fast forward to being in Baja California Mexico and they would always say he had a funny accent.
I speak to a degree the border version of "Spanglish"
When I was in Spain, they would ask where I learned to speak like a Savaje

I had 2 years of Spanish in high school, and learned nothing.
A couple years ago I challenged myself and made a big effort to learn it.
I took a year of Spanish at the community college. Regular college spanish classes with college kids, not “adult education.”
Did one of those online programs (Duolingo maybe).
Watched daytime Spanish TV dramas.
Read books in beginner Spanish.
Spoke in Spanish to as many people as I could (which varied, sometimes I had decent access, other times not at all).
Worked on it every single day for over a year.

Result:

I still suck at Spanish.

My conclusions:

I think it’s true some people have an aptitude for language, others decidedly don’t.
But even for those that do, it’s still harder the older you get.
All the things i did of course helped, but by far the most important and best way to learn is by being around people who speak the language, and using it frequently. Without that live interaction it’s very difficult.

My wife is German and speaks it fluently. I can understand the conversation when she is talking with friends, I just have trouble speaking fluently. I won't have a problem with the German language.

I work with a lot of Spanish speaking guys so I would be able to immerse myself in Spanish at work. I feel that listening in the car while driving and then practicing at work and home would be great exercise for the mind as I get older.

for fun I can sound like..
the guy on Rat Patrol..
or willkommen zu Stalag 3...

Mom still does...
50 years later...

Rika

I am enjoying using Duolingo to learn French. I will certainly butcher the language when I actually try to speak it to a French person. But perhaps I will get some cred for at least trying. And I will know some words, which could become important. Like.....bathroom.