Bang 4 Buck Engine to Learn Engine Building & Tuning
 

What is your recommendation for a bang for the buck, easy to build, fairly robust engine with good parts availability where one could experiment with all aspects of engine building and tuning? Bottom end, top end, different induction and ignition methods, blueprinting, balancing, etc. etc. etc.

Something that responds well to mods and is easy to rebuild if it blows up to continue the learning process. My guess is a 4 cylinder would be a good starting point simply because they have very cylinders (and less parts to assemble) and are available in so many different cars. Open to all years. The chassis might be whatever the engine came in or might be swapped into a more appropriate "test bed". Location is California, U.S. so a pre-smog test vehicle might be key here. Lets assume I have basic engine building skills and access to decent machine shop services as needed.

This engine would be merely a teaching tool. Not expecting to build a mythical high horsepower, reliable motor for no money.

Someone has already recommended a Ford Lima 2.3. There are probably a few Honda or Toyota candidates as well that might work.

Thanks in advance for helping this student for life. :cool:

Small block chevy is as cheap as it gets. Go get a mid/late 70s GM or something.

ford pinto 4 banger is used by oval small classes so lots of parts and cheap

turbo the Nissan 6 det- series as used in the skylines

honda has lots of aftermarket goodies but not as cheap as pinto stuff or pre-smog

maybe later find an old air cooled VW engine. easy to rebuild and it would give you some experience with a clam shell case. I had a lot of fun rebuilding my 914 engine.
but yes I agree with the others small block chevy is a great project. you can sell it and fund the next build. Post pics as you go so we can see your progress. That would be a cool thread to follow. tear down to machine shop to rebuild and running.

-03 kubota diesel 4 cyl engines.

350 chev is the obvious choice.

I got an old continental tractor engine in my garage. Parts seem almost free.

+1. Simple and inexpensive.

Small block Chevy. Super cheap and parts everywhere.

Cali, I think a Honda B16/18 might be a very fun cost effective engine, or maybe the K20/24 to drop into a Miata...

The Chevy is a cheap lump as well, I also love the good ol Ford 302.

Small block Chevy or bug engine. Both can be built with minimal tools and cheap parts. Get a bug motor and the Idiots guide to bug maintenance.

VW or smalll block Chevy.

Try a VW , cheap easy, and even if you do it wrong they usually run for a while lol

Awesome. Thanks for the suggestions. Never considered tractor motors so Ill spend some time researching those as well! Keep em coming!

For the record I am wrapping up a rebuild of my 83 SC CIS motor but thats a very "follow the recipe" kind of a build so I dont screw it up. Its too expensive to experiment with those lumps!

I dunno about the SBC these days. That was the low cost engine to build 30 years ago and there was huge aftermarket support, etc.

These days I think the modern Chevy LS is the more cost effective, simp,e way to go.these engines are one a dozen too. Look for a 6.0 with Aluminum heads as a good starting point. A cam and a few other low cost items and you are at 500 HP for under $1000, maybe under $750.

Miata engines come with an entire car. They are cheap and easy to build, and have a huge aftermarket following. You won't get easy gains with a simple exhaust and intake though. The engine is a little gem, and the car is fun to drive. They are tough, and can take boost.

I have built a number of engines over the years. Proper machine work, cleanliness, and attention to details and tolerances apply to all builds. Different engines though have different tips, tricks, and techniques that have to be employed, and different mods to extract performance. I build engines to put in cars and run. Starting them up is a thrill, and I enjoy breaking them in and running them out. I blew up a couple of engines before I learned how to build a proper engine, but I was a kid, and information wasn't as easy to come by in those days. In some ways I learned more from my failures than I did with my successes, but there is never an end to learning.

The only way you can really find out how good your engine is is by running the heck out of it. That is the part that makes all the rest worthwhile to me. Miatas are good hobby cars for that, and people do throw V8s in them or boost them for higher power. If you want the experience of building cars or engines, this is the shallow end of the pool. Otherwise, I would advise you to pick the car you are interested in, and work on those. If you choose complicated engines, use the buddy system. However, a Fiat X1/9 engine is essentially half of a Ferrari 308, and somewhat similar to a Miata, a 928, or 944. A VW bug engine OTOH, is a lot like an air cooled 911. And like the Fiat is to the Ferrari, there is a commonality of layout between a beetle and a 911. If you can pull a beetle engine and tear it down, you will feel at home tearing into a 911. If you have built a Miata or a 944, you are a step away from a 928 or a 951.

Where do you see this progressing ? Think about that before you choose. A lot of people are really happy building 10 second Fox body Mustangs. Others are not. I happen to love Miatas about as much as any car I have ever owned, and they are one of my top 5 cars. To other people, they will always have a stigma. Like art, you should collect what you like.

I'm gonna be the nut that suggests a go kart with a Lifan 420 or Predator 420 engine. You can tune the hell out of these things and the mods are cheap. I think you can get fuel injection systems for these engines or play around with a carb. You can even find a turbo for these things!
I could be way off base here but if you want something that is highly modifiable, tunable and cheap, a single cylinder or even some of the twins would seem to be an obvious choice.

My opinion / experience. Early 70's SBC 350 as the machining was poor ( but average for the time) and the castings were better ( quality ). If your goal is teaching / experimenting with increasing HP/TQ - start with the short block, observe how far down into the bore the pistons top out, rough castings, uneven wear on main and rod bearings.

The first step in any performance build is 'blue- printing' the block, deck height, align boring main / cam journals, etc. Also how much power ( and type) will a 2 bolt main hold? How much power will the stock rods hold? How can you gain power by greatly reducing rotating assy friction? How can you move peak TQ /HP by changing rod length ( there are a couple different stock lengths.

How about reducing rotating mass / weight for faster engine RPM acceleration?

There is so much to be gained in performance and learning / basic engineering principles in just the short block. If you have access to a really good machinist this is where to start.

Every good engine starts with a great short block foundation.

This is a tempting choice because of 2 reasons. 1) Seat time in a fun to drive car to test the engines is important to me 2) I work at Mazda and have access to parts and Miata gurus.

Yes! This! I feel like there is a list of general engine building best practices that apply to all platforms like some of what you just mentioned. These are the kinds of abilities I want to develop so that I can spot trouble or areas of improvement no matter what engine I tear into. Maybe even get to the point where if I am building my own spec racing engine (of whatever kind) I know what little details I can do that will give me an edge and still let me stay within the rule book.

Thankfully there are quite a few engine machine shops in my area. Additionally my 70 year old dad is retiring soon and is a phenomenal machinist, although not the automotive kind. He is super sharp and Id like to help keep his mind occupied as we both learn how to blueprint engine internals.

I have all these great ingredients surrounding me and I just need to pull them together to be able to build cool machines. :D

Hmm...karting...like F1 drivers...this is also a tempting option.

Briggs and Stratton.

8-) seriously, ... perfect for the newbie

that was my 8th grade project. Kids today don't get that experience

Note: Manufactures add too many parts to small engines, that's why there is always some left over after wrenching on your bike as a kid..........:rolleyes:


Wanna New Engine Tweeking Experience?


My thought. A two stroke ATV quad.

I've had 14 of them over 25 years. 3-4 major builds


1st quad - yamaha Blaster. 200cc stock. Port/polish put a pipe on it. you can buy one for all day long on Craigslist for $1500 running quad.

2nd quad - 350cc 4 stroke Warrior. Did a big bore / stroker kit and high lift cam for 400cc. It died a Glorious death in Oregon sand dunes after rod pin started tapping and seized. Putting lower rod thru two new holes in the case. Big smoke cloud as oil poured forward. I got off quad and laid in sand looking at pretty clouds in blue sky over head.....sigh.

3rd quad - called White Lightning. stock Banshee Twin 350 two stroke. Big bore sleeved pistoned with .25" stroker crank = 404cc. Major carb work with intake spacers for longer throat/torque. Toomey t-5 pipes with CSFX quiet muffers. (92dB noise limit in dunes) +4" trailing arm to keep nose down. Stock is ~38 hp? I was putting down around 65. hooking up PADDLE tires in the dunes and bangging gears = many bent shifter forks. Too Lean = several 4 point seizes of pistons during tuning runs. (locking up rear tires at 50, cool down start , go home)



4th quad. Predator 500cc 4 stroke. Jet hot coated Tuned Supertrapp exhaust with Drilled re-jetted carb . awesome all around family performance machine.


That was 15 years ago, Everything is sold now......:(:(;):D but my Twin Black 500cc Predators.




https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/atvconn...418110cdcd.jpg


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/atvconn...8c2e5ae0ee.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/atvconn...ee0f6a9254.jpg



A dozen other my ATV pics playing in sand dunes. ST Anthony's Idaho and Florence Oregon:

yes they were an honest 350-400 foot talll............in baby powder soft sand.....man that robs the power.

click. comment.



https://atvconnection.com/g/album/4235348

Don't forget bull- nosing / knife edging crank throws, optimizing the oil pump for reduced 'pulsing' , windage trays, crank scrapers. All are very important even in a mild street engine.

While later gen engines like Mazda or Honda are also good platforms, the machining, materials and oil control are very good because the manufacturers have already addressed sloppy machining and heavy / inefficient components. What's the lesson there?

The SBC offers real world challenges with simple improvements machining-wise. Think budget, not cheap horsepower - as in work with what you have - just like engineering.

You are absolutely right. Stay focused on the intended purpose which is learning as much as possible and choose the platform that will maximize that opportunity.

So much of the answer will depend on what use he will have for the final product when done. For sure building a Briggs & Stratton is way easier than a small block. But will there be a use for the engine when done?

A small block will drop right into a ton of different car projects. No doubt more 32 Fords have a 350 Chevy engine than Ford engines. And there are a zillion old Chevrolet vehicles from Corvette to pickup to 4 door cars.

It takes lots more space for a car, but in the end if he ends up with a car he can drive and sell, he will have learned a lot of very practical knowledge.

40+ years farting around with cars and never heard of a crank scraper. In my defense they are fairly new tech. No more than 90 years old.

Googled and they can make them out of teflon (inserts) with as little as a few thousandths clearance.

Rods still throw up plenty of oil so (from read) not as restrictive as some windage trays.

Learn something new everyday.

^^^^^ Yes, low tech really - in a typical short block layout where the rotating assy is exposed, the scraper is sandwiched between bottom of block / oil pan rail and oil pan. The protruding 'forks' are very close to each crank counter weight throw surrounding the edges to scrape the liquid off.

You wouldn't believe how much drag and slosh the liquid has on the rotating assy.

AFA blueprinting I don't think there's much more bang for the buck than an H-4 air cooled motor. The case halves are machined and bored whereas V8's are simply line bored for the crank and cam, and the block surfaced square to the bore, but the block is a single lump. The H-4 has the additional setting of the cylinders that have to be at the same height to fit the heads right. This would be true with many motorcycle engines.

When getting to rod length and wrist pin height all multi-cylinders are pretty much the same. And then there's balancing. Believe it or not, a single cylinder engine can be balanced to a certain degree.

When I was racing karts a huge amount of time, effort and money was spent to get more HP out of a stock out-of-the-box engine. The ubiquitous Yamaha KT100 was good for another 2 HP with modifications strictly adhering to the rule book which did not allow timing changes to the ignition nor the 2-cycle ports. The differences between motors shipped out of the factory were subtle but they did differ. And the tolerances could be improved on. Mainly squaring the cylinder to the crank, establishing the ideal piston clearance and making sure the ports were right on the money. Plus CC'ing the head, as well as balancing. By doing all the work with ultimate precision, 15% more HP could be found. A really good motor would turn another 1000 RPM over a bone stock box motor.

However, 4-cycle engines have more things to play with, mainly the cam and valve train that a 2- cycle motor doesn't have. And don't forget flowing the heads.

I've seen some nasty B and S motors on karts that were way beyond mowing the lawn.

I ran a bone stock 350 cheby 2 barrel on a bare engine dyno, applying a varying hydraulic load


If I recall, it took 12 horsepower to idle, pushing mechanical mass and fluid resistance.

Crank Scraper - Mopar calls it a windage tray..keeps the oil down in the pan and keeps it from sloshing around all over the place.

If you want some air cooled fun. Type 1, and type 2 engines are as easy as they get. Splitting the case is the hardest part. I think small 1 and 2 piston engines are pretty easy too.

THE LAWNMOWER RACER'S HAVE SOME INSANE b&s MOTORS MODS
INC TURBO'S ON V-TWINS

Not the same. Scraper is profiled around the throws of the crank. Windage tray is below that. Both are important for oil control. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/beerchug.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/beerchug.gif