An Open Letter On Gender Equality

[Hawkeye's-911T]

Here’s what Hayley Wickenheiser — a decorated hockey player, six-time Olympian and Maple Leafs assistant director of player development — had to say:

Last week, the Coyotes raised the jersey of one of the most respected male hockey players, Shane Doan, to the rafters. Then Mikaël Kingsbury, one of the best male skiers, took home some hardware from the World championships. And male NBA player Luca Doncic notched his fourth triple-double of his rookie career! It was a good week for males in sports.

It felt awkward to even write those sentences. To include the athletes’ gender in my description of their feats felt forced, but somehow it doesn’t feel forced when we are referring to women who play practically any game, or step up to any podium. Why is that?

We’ve made so much progress, right? No one thinks twice about women in sport, right? Of course a girl can play, we say. But why do we need to say it at all? I look forward to the day when it can go unsaid. Athletes can play. All athletes. Regardless of anything other than their desire to play.
Serena Williams is one of the best tennis players in the world. Not one of the best female players—one of the best. Kaillie Humphries is one of the best bobsledders in the world. Period.

This goes beyond sport. Canadian professor and Nobel Laureate Donna Strickland was asked in a recent interview about the focus on her gender when she became the third woman to win a Nobel prize in physics. She quipped, “I see myself as a scientist, not a woman in science.”

Look, I understand that there is a continuum of progress that must occur. At first, the issue is the exclusion of a group of people. Then, we fight for inclusion. There is righteousness and anger. Headway is made. There’s applause and lauding of “the first” and “the few,” and over the years, it becomes “the many.” The publicity and outcry dies down. The visible majority of naysayers becomes the silent minority. And so it goes. Over time, there are blips of excitement as each new milestone occurs. Then one day, they just happen without any special fanfare.

Take suffrage, for example. Women getting the vote was a big deal. Now, I, as a woman, am just a voter. Not a single person thinks twice about my gender when I put my ballot in the box, but in 1920 they sure would have. (A shameful side note: Indigenous peoples didn’t get the right to vote until 1960, but that’s an article for another day.)

In my own life in sport, I have been the first in several athletic endeavours. Most recently, I was the first woman hired in the NHL for the type of player development role I have with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Everyone spoke about how progressive it was of the Leafs, but the Leafs spoke about me being the right person for the job. Not the right woman; the right person. I respect that. They have continued to show me that respect and I, them.

It seems to me that the longest part of the progress continuum is after we stop including gender in the conversation at all. At first, though, it’s necessary. It is leverage required to elevate the trailblazers, to recognize their exceptionally hard work. But we only reach true parity when the story is exclusively about the job they do, the race they ran or the game they played. I look forward to that day in sport.

[Seahawk]

Ok.

Do you honestly think people obsess over "gender equality"? I don't for a second.

She does. She goes from asking for the MLK dream in gender whatever (don't add "woman" to my resume) to citing her accomplishments as a woman in a man's world. Stop.

But if she thinks men and women can/should compete on the same fields of athletic endeavor, she needs to step away from the Hookah.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

But if she thinks men and women can/should compete on the same fields of athletic endeavor, she needs to step away from the Hookah.

She already did that. She played in a men's pro league.

[Hawkeye's-911T]

Hey Paul
I agree with you about the "same fields of athletic endeavour" thing being a bit of a stretch - but she did play in a men's pro league. I just thought the article was an interesting point of view.
Cheers
JB

Jeez 1990 beat me to the punch - I am a very slow typist

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

She already did that. She played in a men's pro league.

She played in the NHL?

I must have missed that. I looked her up before I posted, easier that way: She was in Swedish men's third league.

Fantastic athlete, better person.

Again, what is her point? I have no issues with gender equality, zero; less than zero if possible. All the women in my family are incredible professionals in medicine, law, engineering, business.

I have STEM growing out my ears!

[MikeSid]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye's-911T

Here’s what Hayley Wickenheiser had to say:

... No one thinks twice about women in sport, right? Of course a girl can play, we say. But why do we need to say it at all? I look forward to the day when it can go unsaid. Athletes can play. All athletes....

Well... we need to say it because men and women participate in different divisions! Not distinguishing between gender divisions in sports accolades is tantamount to saying a group of little leaguers won the world series. Good for them. But it's not the same as the MLB world series, and acknowledging exactly what their accomplishment was in no way disparages the achievement of these youth.

Everyone knows there is a difference between youth baseball players and adults, just like everyone knows there is a difference between adult men and women in virtually all sports.

Now, to her point, we typically don't refer to men's champions as such. We simply call them champions. But that's just a matter of the default being set to men in the past. I don't think any men in the world would have a problem with all future men's championships referring to the gender division. That should be her argument. But to say we don't need to distinguish is laughable.

[seafeye]

In the airline industry we have complete bias. It blatantly opposes a white male.
If you have 5 people interviewing for 3 jobs. 3 white guys 1 black and 1 woman.
The 3 white guys are fighting for the 1 position to be allocated to them.
I don’t care who HR hires. But hire the best for the job. Not the sex or color of skin.
Delta airlines has only 10% woman pilots. Seems low huh?
Till you see that woman hold only 4% of all ATP licenses.
Delta has hired 2-3 times as many woman than statistically they should.

We have a gender bias against white men. It’s not racist or discriminatory to state the facts.
United and American will not disclose the stats.
FAA does not release data based on race. Not that I can find.

https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/media/2018-civil-airmen-stats.xlsx

[look 171]

Where's the bias when black students are given something like 300point on their SATs where white and women students are getting nothing but the score they get and Asian students are getting 50 points off no matter. This was a study done by Princeton U. Oh, I forget that hispanic students are given some free points too (150 points or there about?) What a load of crap. I am not sure if this is true, but this leads into applicants for loans and what not. That one, I thinks just hearsay? God, I really hope it is. This crap isn't doing them any good.

[McLovin]

What a weird letter.

It's titled An Open Letter on Gender Equality, but it's about sports, which already has complete gender equality. The NBA, NFL, MLB, college sports, high school sports, etc. etc. are all completely gender neutral. Winning is the goal, and any person of any gender, color (or anything else) that can compete the best and give the team the best chance of winning is going to get the job.

She concludes with "But we only reach true parity when the story is exclusively about the job they do, the race they ran or the game they played. I look forward to that day in sport."

That day is also already here. Or at least the opportunity for women is here. The problem is almost none can compete at "true parity" with men at the highest level of sports, particularly team sports and particularly at the highest levels, which she seems go focus on.

[McLovin]

Like a lot of people, she claims to want "true parity" but that's not really what she wants.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by McLovin

The problem is almost none can compete at "true parity" with men at the highest level of sports, particularly team sports and particularly at the highest levels, which she seems go focus on.

No, none can...there is no woman that can earn a roster spot at the apex of any major/minor sport or track event where men compete. Zero.

These conversations are the intellectual litter of bored societies where survival isn't in question.

[Les Paul]

You might want to check out top 3 from the last women’s Olympics 800.

[wayner]

I think her point is that despite her accomplishments in sport a the highest levels, in her current position there is no room for phrases like "hey! thats pretty good..for a woman."

In her business role "that's pretty good" should be enough.

[Sooner or later]

They were 14 or 15 seconds slower than the men.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by wayner

I think her point is that despite her accomplishments in sport a the highest levels, in her current position there is no room for phrases like "hey! thats pretty good..for a woman."

Her article kind of meanders all over the place, but it seems to focus mostly on sports (read the first paragraph and the last sentence).

As far as sports at the highest levels, which are already gender neutral, "that's pretty good . . . for a woman" is perfectly legit. Because it's true. Keeping gender out of it ("true parity"), women's accomplishments at the highest levels of sports competition are not noteworthy.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

These conversations are the intellectual litter of bored societies where survival isn't in question.

Well said...and absolutely true.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Her article kind of meanders all over the place, but it seems to focus mostly on sports....

She was a pioneer in women's olympic sports. So yes she has a sports background and that got her notoriety and opened some doors.

She has now been hired by a sports team in non athletic role

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

These conversations are the intellectual litter of bored societies where survival isn't in question.

In how many threads could (should) this be the last post?

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

She goes from asking for the MLK dream in gender whatever (don't add "woman" to my resume) to citing her accomplishments as a woman in a man's world. Stop.

^I observe this in the amateur motorsports world. More and more women are competing in amateur motorsports, which is great. Unlike the sports that I think most are referring to in this thread, motorsport (like auto racing) is an arena where there isn't any reason why women and men can't play on the same field.

However, I see a lot of the women involved in the sport reference how they despise being treated differently than the men - while simultaneously touting how unique they are because they are among the few women participating in the sport. I keep thinking just shut up and drive.

[sammyg2]

They tell us what to think, and some of us listen.