Stock sale advice please

[flatbutt]

While employed I often received company stock grants in lieu of pay raises. Last year I sold a bunch of it at a loss. I assumed that the holding company, Computershare would send me a summary of the sale showing purchase price vs sale price for tax purposes. But they didn't. They only sent a 1099B that shows the gross proceeds with no mention of loss v gain.

I've tried getting help from Computershare but they keep saying everything is on line. No real help at all. I've looked everywhere for the appropriate summary.

So now I'm faced with paying the full capital gains tax with no deduction for loss incurred.

Any ideas how to proceed guys?

TIA

[masraum]

I assume your grants were done through an account created by the company through a broker of some sort. You should be able to go into that broker (etrade, ameritrade, etc...) and pull past data. Possibly by going to "transactions" or pulling old statements or something like that.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by masraum

I assume your grants were done through an account created by the company through a broker of some sort. You should be able to go into that broker (etrade, ameritrade, etc...) and pull past data. Possibly by going to "transactions" or pulling old statements or something like that.

Tried that and the detailed report just doesn't exist online. I will try getting someone on the phone again but typically they just say "go online and get it". Even my tax advisor has looked and is stumped.

How the heck do I get them to give me what I need? I have no leverage at all. Or do I just pay the full tax and try to correct it later?

[Craig T]

You need to see a good tax CPA about this. There are several qualifications of stock grants and awards.

If you exercised "stock options" at a higher price and held them long enough to become a capital gain, your tax basis on the shares sold could be at the price you exercised them, regardless of the share price at the point of sale. There were executives at Gateway Computers who exercised options and held and owed taxes on $$MM's of dollars of stock options and never saw one penny from the shares after the decline. I'd want to professional to clarify this.

If they were simply stock grants, our even restricted shares that vested, that scary tax liability is probably not applicable. But, if they were shelved by the company until you sold them, you are not entitled to take losses just because the share price is down from the strike price at the time they allocated them to you.

If they were fully vested or actual tradable shares and simply given to you as a bonus, and your tax return for the year they were awarded already reflect these stock bonuses as income, then you should be entitled to take the loss. In most cases, these type of stock payments are held in your, or the company's, brokerage account in your name. In essence, you can not claim a loss on the stock unless you already paid taxes on the money used to buy them (or they were counted at income when granted).

...But then again, what the F do I know?

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Craig T

You need to see a good tax CPA about this. There are several qualifications of stock grants and awards.

If you exercised "stock options" at a higher price and held them long enough to become a capital gain, your tax basis on the shares sold could be at the price you exercised them, regardless of the share price at the point of sale. There were executives at Gateway Computers who exercised options and held and owed taxes on $$MM's of dollars of stock options and never saw one penny from the shares after the decline. I'd want to professional to clarify this.

If they were simply stock grants, our even restricted shares that vested, that scary tax liability is probably not applicable. But, if they were shelved by the company until you sold them, you are not entitled to take losses just because the share price is down from the strike price at the time they allocated them to you.

If they were fully vested or actual tradable shares and simply given to you as a bonus, and your tax return for the year they were awarded already reflect these stock bonuses as income, then you should be entitled to take the loss. In most cases, these type of stock payments are held in your, or the company's, brokerage account in your name. In essence, you can not claim a loss on the stock unless you already paid taxes on the money used to buy them (or they were counted at income when granted).

...But then again, what the F do I know?

That last scenario is me as I paid tax on them when they reverted to my control at retirement. Trouble is I can't find the damn delta on purchase v sale. I may need to pay the full capital gain tax and try to work it out later, I have time..many thanks.

[Chocaholic]

I’m no help but from a pure semantics perspective it sounds like you’re seeking your “cost basis” for those shares. If you get a thinking human on the phone, that may save you some ‘splainin.

[stevej37]

Watching this because I am in the same situation...except my shares went up greatly.
Now wanting to sell...they can't seem to quote me a cost basis...because of different holders

[Ziggythecat]

If the information on cost can’t be obtained, i’d give a good guesstimate on your average cost basis.

Even in the highly unlikely event of an audit, and a full audit at that, you have a reasonable explanation for your actions.

My 2 cents

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

If the information on cost can’t be obtained, i’d give a good guesstimate on your average cost basis.

Even in the highly unlikely event of an audit, and a full audit at that, you have a reasonable explanation for your actions.

My 2 cents

Assuming that the IRS accepts a "reasonable explanation".

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

If the information on cost can’t be obtained, i’d give a good guesstimate on your average cost basis.

Even in the highly unlikely event of an audit, and a full audit at that, you have a reasonable explanation for your actions.

My 2 cents

This is not the correct answer

[stevej37]

The answer I always get (from my advisor) is..."the cost basis will be determined at time of sale"
That's not good...a 'cost basis' that is hugely variable, makes it hard to make a decision.
If left up to me...I know what I would declare...but that prob won't happen.

[stomachmonkey]

I have a similar situation and Comuptershare did not enter the cost basis either.

Our cost basis is $0.00

Yeah I don’t like it either but it is what it is.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

That last scenario is me as I paid tax on them when they reverted to my control at retirement. Trouble is I can't find the damn delta on purchase v sale. I may need to pay the full capital gain tax and try to work it out later, I have time..many thanks.

In your OP you mentioned that your received stock grants several times in lieu of pay raises, and in the above you state you paid taxes on them when they reverted to your control at retirement. It sounds like you are saying that you did not pay tax on their value until you retired, is that correct? If so, were the stocks not included as income during all that time?

Now, let me make clear that I have little knowledge of dealing with stocks so I really am asking because I want understanding. It seems to me, however, if the stocks were somehow deferred as income during your employment and you did not pay tax on their value, when they reverted to your control you would be liable for their value, whatever it may be, at that point. If this is so, it sounds like Craig T's third paragraph description, not the fourth paragraph.

[stomachmonkey]

Hmm, I retract my earlier comment.

Had not seen OP’s latest post.

Craig is correct.

Cost basis is whatever he paid tax on.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

In your OP you mentioned that your received stock grants several times in lieu of pay raises, and in the above you state you paid taxes on them when they reverted to your control at retirement. It sounds like you are saying that you did not pay tax on their value until you retired, is that correct? If so, were the stocks not included as income during all that time?

Now, let me make clear that I have little knowledge of dealing with stocks so I really am asking because I want understanding. It seems to me, however, if the stocks were somehow deferred as income during your employment and you did not pay tax on their value, when they reverted to your control you would be liable for their value, whatever it may be, at that point. If this is so, it sounds like Craig T's third paragraph description, not the fourth paragraph.

Now you see my confusion. I did pay tax on them at retirement, a huge nut all at once. And the tax was set as of their value at that time which has gone down since. I've held them long enough to get the Capital Gains rate. Whats driving me nuts is not being able to get the info I need. If I'm not eligible to take the loss for whatever reason then so be it, but I don't want to fork over thousands if I don't need to. Either way, taking the loss or not I'm still ahead by a bunch.

[Alan A]

Where are the records of your payment? Isn’t it on the filing the year you retired?

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Where are the records of your payment? Isn’t it on the filing the year you retired?

yes but it doesn't break out the separate grants cost basis. My CPA is trying to work with that.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

yes but it doesn't break out the separate grants cost basis. My CPA is trying to work with that.

They won’t take an average and a VAR-L?
That sucks. I better start saving old E*TRADE statements...

[wildthing]

Are these RSUs? Or are you given actual stock that vests that same day it is granted?

Because for RSUs, those appear on your W2, and you only need to report your gains over and above the price used on the W2.

[Drbraunsr]

Fidelity sends me a "Supplemental Information" statement along with the standard "Tax Reporting Statement".
The supplemental info form details the "adjusted Cost or other basis" with the "adjusted gain/loss".
I'm thinking this is what you're looking for or something similar.