Anti-Vaxxers
 

Your thoughts? What would you do if anything?

We're at the tail end of a measles outbreak in the Portland area - actually over the river in Vancouver WA but a few cases in Portland too.

And there's just been the first Oregon tetanus case in a long time.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/03/boy-spent-47-agonizing-days-in-icu-with-tetanus-parents-still-refuse-vaccines/

Interesting, the pediatric infectious disease doc who treated the tetanus boy is my neighbor around the corner.

There is no quickfix for ignorance and stupidity.

Forcing medical treatment onto those that don't want it is one of those slippery slopes we states rights people rant about. Camels nose under the tent? Maybe. Forcefully protecting a child against what we consider negligence is fraught with unintended consequences. My niece refused to vaccinate her sons and I think shes nuts.

There is, but not a socially acceptable one SmileWavy

This is my concern too.

I'm thinking
- you don't have to vaccinate if you don't want to
- unvaccinated children excluded from public school (no exemptions other than bona fide medical)
- streamline process of verifying vaccination status

Which isn't all that much of a change from current practice.

The private sector can do a lot of persuasion without government mandate. Day cares, youth clubs, private schools, etc could require vaccination to participate.

So a dedicated anti-vaxxer could remain so, but the casual anti-vaxxer probably wouldn't go through the inconvenience.

If the dedicated anti-vaxxers are a small enough % of the population, their failure to vaccinate won't matter (you don't need 100% population to be vaccinated).

I was vaccinated for diseases that are now eliminated. Polio and Small Pox. I got all the standard vaccinations as did everyone back then.

I understand the slippery slope, but it is not just the antivaxers kids in danger. Hence the Measles outbreak. It is a complex problem. In the end, if some idiot parent wants to ignore all of medical science and not vaccinate, their kids don't get to go to school. and public places. No mall, no Disney Land, and so on.

I have a BIL who's wife is a an Anti-vaccer she pumped out 3 kids on the taxpayers dime.

She is a season pass holder to Disney (But is on Welfare and whatever Government Health care for welfare is on) and I am just waiting for the day when the kids come down with a rare disease that he not seen the light of day in 20 years.

Idiots, all of them.

There is no mention of insurance in any of the articles I’ve read. I wonder if insurance companies will eventually require vaccines as a condition of being insured.

Fwiw, Polio has not been eradicated.

Also, anti-vaxxers fall under the same umbrella as conspiracy theorists. Conspiracy theory has been around for a long time and some of it has roots in real stuff. People start to extrapolate from points not connected and trouble follows...like measles outbreaks.

1).Let's say 95 people take the shot and all lived. Yeah!

Let's say 5 people refuse the shot and all died. They got what they deserved! Oh well. Boo!

So the 95 people remaining are now happy guinea pigs, and walk around town totally immune to the disease.
Yeah!
Where in this equation does it concern the rest of us?


2). There were 30-60 school-shooting deaths per year. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/youthviolence/schoolviolence/savd.html
There were 200 to 480 circumcision deaths per year. Circumcision Deaths
There were 47,600 opioid deaths in 2017. https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates

Vaccine deaths and/or permanent brain trauma effects are getting up there also.
https://www.dmlawfirm.com/flu-vaccine-deaths-mount/
https://thevaccinereaction.org/2019/01/over-4-billion-paid-for-vaccine-injuries-and-deaths/


3). 'Big Pharma' is derived from the term 'Big Stock Market Free Government Research Money Pharma' for a reason.
So many concerned sjw citizens are all blogging at once on the internet..
Grain of salt my friend.


4) A baby is a delicate miracle and dependent on its environment. After nine months developing from scratch eating and drinking and hearing and feeling everything the mother does it emerges from the womb through a traumatic process which takes months and years to recover from. Meanwhile its genetic structure is slowly developing it's own immune system via the mother's own antibodies specifically cultured over thousands of generations. It is slowly learning and growing the mixture of bacteria which will live in the G.I. tract and sustain it over a lifetime. Adapting and growing naturally.

So in the middle of this entire delicate process....why would anyone stick it with a needle full of harsh chemicals cocktail in a mercury base?
(because they ALL are required and ALL have to be given at once?)

how much of this is exacerbated by sanctuary cities?

[QUOTE=berettafan;10384029]how much of this is exacerbated by sanctuary cities?[/QUOTE

Nice big community of anti-vaccinators south of me in Orange Country. Not sure they are a sanctuary city but you might want to look up their political persuasions

Don't call 'em anti-vaxxers.
The proper name is "Plague pushers"

Easy solution from a friend who is an MD. Make the anti-vaxxers obtain "high risk" insurance policies... Should sort it out.

We are similarly stupid around this place. A town in NZ has had a measles outbreak with twenty affected and I think two have died. So they have hurriedly ordered 100,000 vacinations because it seems seems like a good idea to get vacinated after all :rolleye:

I need to get a tetanus shot. With all the things I do around here I know I am at risk. If I had a kid at home I’d have him at the doc’s tomorrow for his shot, but can’t get around to taking care of myself.

Vaccines are very useful...and there should be no denying the reality of most modern medicine....but:
1). With mercury?
2). All at once with no recovery/adaptation times?
3). To infants immediately out of the womb?
4). Some of these are for obscure diseases not seen in many decades in low contagion areas.
5). There are so many other known and immediate threats to public safety.

There is a reason the pill got reduced to 1/100th (or a lot) of its original potency.

First of all it is not full of harsh chemicals. It contains antigens which stimulate the production of antibodies. Secondly only a large or multi dose vial contains Thimerosal and then at a level of 0.01% which is about 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose. About the same as a 3 ounce can of tuna fish.

Stop using reason and logic.
You need to appeal to emotion.
“If you don’t give it the baby will die” is the only message they can relate to. Facts be damned.

I'm not disparaging vaccines, per se.

I'm questioning the safety of the delivery methods and the media campaign$ for it.

Now there is a thought. :)

2 - huh? they aren't given all at once. There is a schedule.
3 - huh? WTF are you talking about? They aren't given to babies as soon as they pop out. Babies are effectively immune as long as they are being breast fed.
4 - Maybe there's a reason the obscure diseases haven't been seen in decades. Maybe things are different these days and will all of the immigrants and international travel, things that weren't previously seen for decades in a specific area could pop up due to the addition of one immigrant from a country in Africa or somewhere else that doesn't have the same type of medical system as the US.
5 - You're absolutely right. We should stop all of this vaccine stuff and dedicate all of our time and energy to _____ instead.

The reason for the media campaign is probably largely related to the prevalence of social media and all of the morons the get on board when Jenny McCarthy or whoever it is decides that something is bad and declares it as fact online.

It's like fake news. One person puts out fake news and then 1000 other people spread it without any confirmation. To fix that fake news, is really difficult.

I don't know the policies regarding injecting new babies.
Is this fake news then?

https://www.naturalnews.com/035448_vaccines_cocktail_homeopathic_remedies.html
"On December 4, 2011, however, under a tremendous amount of pressure from the family pediatrician, he and his wife acquiesced and allowed a single injection cocktail of seven vaccines, as follows: DPaT (3 vaccines: diphtheria, pertussis, tetnus), HIB, Pneumococcal, Polio, and Influenza."

I did not have vaccines as a youngin' and I grew up to be very weird.

I think it's crap. Maybe that one doctor did apply pressure and I certainly would not allow my child to receive so many vaccines at once. Heck my boot camp vaccinations knocked the heck out of me and I was 18 yo.

But that's one story of what I consider to be a wildly inappropriate medical treatment. And homeopathy is a joke! I say that with absolute certainty given that most homeopathic remedies are vanishingly small doses of medicinal ingredients.

That seems like it would be a possibility. Once a person becomes of age it is his decision. A reasonable insurer would insist on vaccinations as a requirement for insurance - at least for life insurance.

I am a big fan of using citations for a reason.

The main reason is it prevents me from making a mistake and having to correct myself.

Please provide a citation or two for the parts I highlighted in dark red.

I found this, and it's much worse than I ever could have dreamed up on my own.

Immunization Schedule
https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/immunization-chart.html
Why can't these shots be spread out over an even further time line like they do with livestock to prevent complications?

Aren't children at least as important as livestock?

From what I've read, most of the negative attention is given to the MMR: Measles, mumps, and rubella (German measles) vaccine. AKA the triple poke.

EDIT:

This is Germany's vaccination schedule, and I do not see any MMR (they do them singularly)
https://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Scheduler/ByCountry?SelectedCountryId=6&IncludeChildAgeGroup =true&IncludeChildAgeGroup=false&IncludeAdultAgeGr oup=false

Pick a European country of your own choosing.

https://ecdc.europa.eu/en/immunisation-vaccines/EU-vaccination-schedules
To clarify, I am not an antivaxer, I just have reservations about the triple poke not fit for livestock and Europeans, but just fine for Americans?

EDIT-2:
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
Vaccines Licensed for Use in the United States
https://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/vaccines/approvedproducts/ucm093833.htm
Product Name...................... Trade Name
The bottom two M-M-R II and ProQuad are made by the same company, the M-M-Vax one I am not sure of.
Manufacturer: Merck & Co., Inc

UK
MMR Vaccine (Measles, Mumps and Rubella Vaccine)
MMR Vaccine (Measles, Mumps and Rubella Vaccine) | Vaccine Knowledge

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/clinical-resources/mmr-faq-12-17-08.html
April 2017
The Motley Fool
Merck Stock History: The Drugmaker's Boom, Bust, and Bounce Back
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/04/11/merck-stock-history-the-drugmakers-boom-bust-and-b.aspx

Feb 2, 2019
4 Things You Need to Know About Merck's Q4 Earnings Results
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/02/02/4-things-you-need-to-know-about-mercks-q4-earnings.aspx
Merck & Co
https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000000275

Wow - you are an expert on medicine as well as aircraft and transportation.
A polyglot like yourself really needs a better handle. Kach-Vinc22i or something similar.

Please stay on topic and take your garbage elsewhere.

Thank you.

Maybe the reason they are giving them at birth is because hospitals are disease factories.
(which charge citizens an arm and a leg...cough..cough)

Tons of sick people who could have been easily cured get mrsa and staph in those places.
My ex did this stuff for a living. A neighbor almost died twice. It is as bad as you think.

https://www.beckersasc.com/asc-quality-infection-control/7-statistics-on-healthcare-acquired-infections.html
"7 statistics on healthcare-acquired infections
1. Anyone admitted to a hospital has a 5 percent chance of contracting an HAI.

2. The hospital length of stay increases by 17.6 days when patients get an HAI.

3. Nearly 99,000 people die in the United States annually from HAIs; this is more than breast cancer and prostate cancer combined.

4. Around 9.4 percent of inpatient costs are HAI-related.

5. HAIs cost the healthcare system around $35 billion per year.

6. There are 69 percent of HAIs affect people with Medicare and Medicaid patients.

7. HAIs account for $1,100 per patient admission."

PDP-11s, and their successors? Nuthin' against 'em... ancient, but still productive imo.



Vax - DEC ;)?

Causes Tourette's Syndrome. I've seen it many times.

Kach:
Some vaccines have show to be enhanced when given with others... sympathetic immune response. So that is how they are given, to take advantage of the enhanced immune response.

It is truly shameful that we are so short sighted when it comes to anything we haven't seen with our own eyes. I get doubting Thomas, but just because I was born after polio doesn't mean it didn't happen and there wasn't pictures.

Maybe we need a good plague to remind us of what we are 'missing' when we vaccinate.

Id almost say, let those that don't vaccinate die or pay the hospital bill, but its not the adult that suffers, but the kid... I know, think of the children. But really, parents have a job. How about they do it.

John:
Hospitals are where sick people go, so yes, there will be disease there. Bleach is pretty much all there is to decon room.

People have decided hospitals are hotels. They are not. A hospital 'satisfaction form' should ask:
1. did you go out the door you came in (100% satisfaction)
2. did you go out the back door (0% satisfaction)

You feel like crap, go the hospital. Get treatment that makes you feel like crap, then go home. Days later you feel better... and the crazy thing is those 'satisfaction scores' are tied to the hospital getting to get paid. Its nuts.

In summary then,

Vaccines are on a global scale one the medical inventions that have saved most lives and suffering. Among children I would rank it as number one.

Trust me. I am doctor. :D:D

Thank you, I did not know this.

Fewer and smaller doses certainly seems appealing on the surface, but the one shoe fits all might not be right for everyone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK190017/
I don't know squat about T-Cells, so I'm off to layout a site plan - cheers.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-race-good-health/201303/autism-spectrum-disorders-racial-disparities-and-treatment
https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/site...?itok=WSTlFPD_

I work at hospital and patient satisfaction scores can get stupid.
Did you find a place to park?
Was the food good?
Were people nice to you?

I got a tetanus shot at 19 after one of my many accidents working on something. Ever since I've made sure to get another every year my age ends in 9. That makes it easy to remember. Better safe than sorry. Got several years til my next one at 59.