If vaccines work as advertised, why are people upset with anti Vaxers?

[unclebilly]

For any given disease that vaccinations have controlled, in the beginning few people had the vaccination and the population of those who were vaccinated slowly increased until most were vaccinated and few were unvaccinated.

During the introduction of a given vaccine, obviously those who were vaccinated were exposed to unvaccinated people every single day. Many would have been exposed to people inflicted with the disease and the vaccination must have worked because the vaccinated population never got sick.

Fast forward until now, we have a decline in those who are vaccinating their kids for a multitude of reasons.

Some people are freaking out because of the off chance that an infected person could come into contact with another person who is vaccinated.

Why are they worried? If the vaccinations work, like they must have 40 - 50 years ago, what difference does it make?

[fastfredracing]

That is a good question, and I am anxious to hear the smart people's answers

[flatbutt]

It's not all about my grandchildren who are vaccinated, it's about those other children who aren't They are the ones that will get sick and suffer. Their parents are the ones who will be responsible for their childs suffering and allowing a defeated disease to possibly re-emerge.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

An open-eyed person has to ask why such a large percentage of autism in the last 40 years or more.
Yes, I have read the journals and they are written like damage control.

I have no expertise in autism. Could it be a redefining of the disease which caused more people to be diagnosed as such? I do know that there is no data linking autism to vaccination. At least none that I know of.

[Alan A]

Kids that act up in class - boys in particular - are now defined as being “on the spectrum” and medicated.

When I was in class acting up would have resulted in light percussive maintenance. Which would have turned into heavier “tuition by hand” if the behavior continued. It was a pretty effective learning mechanism.

But no, it’s vaccines to blame.

[legion]

A population is effectively immune from a disease when 90% of the population is immune because the disease cannot find enough people to propagate and dies out. This is known as "herd immunity".

There is a percentage of our population (around 5%) that cannot be vaccinated for various medical reasons (such as having an immune disorder). These people depend on the "herd immunity" for their survival.

If the anti-vaxxers reach 5-6% of our population, they put those at risk that cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.

There is also some fear that if a disease is able to enter a population and get a foothold, it may be able to mutate in a way that renders current vaccines ineffective. This is possible because anti-vaxxers (and other non-vaccinated populations) don't tend to be diffused evenly throughout the population but concentrated.

[pavulon]

Non-vaccinated sorts become infected then seek treatment at the expense of everyone. Not only financially when on the public dole, but in the form of avoidably and disproportionately soaking up healthcare resources that could be used for much less easily preventable or predictable situations as well as potentially exposing people who are health compromised in the general public and hospital. Further, a low frequency disease has less chance to mutate and so represents a lesser threat for future populations. This is just my from the hip opinion. I’d imagine there are more..

[Hugh R]

I heard a doctor on NBC yesterday say vaccines are at best 70% effective. Even if they are 99.9% effective, that would mean about 1 out of 1,000 who are vaccinated could get the disease. So in a USA population at 99.9% about 330,000 could get said disease. Again this doctor said at best 70% effective.

World Health Organization say measles vac is 98% effective and most are 85%-95% effective. Which is why you want as many in the herd to be vaccinated as possible. I Russian Roulette,you increase your odds by having less bullets or more empty chambers.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by legion

A population is effectively immune from a disease when 90% of the population is immune because the disease cannot find enough people to propagate and dies out. This is known as "herd immunity".

There is a percentage of our population (around 5%) that cannot be vaccinated for various medical reasons (such as having an immune disorder). These people depend on the "herd immunity" for their survival.

If the anti-vaxxers reach 5-6% of our population, they put those at risk that cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.

There is also some fear that if a disease is able to enter a population and get a foothold, it may be able to mutate in a way that renders current vaccines ineffective. This is possible because anti-vaxxers (and other non-vaccinated populations) don't tend to be diffused evenly throughout the population but concentrated.

THis ^^^

Not to mention, vaccines aren't always 100% effective. They will reduce the impact, but not completely stop the illness.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

(last I knew childbirths are dwn in the USA)

After the US birthrate is reduced by vaccines, the natural response will be to increase illegal immigration so capitalism can survive..[/s]

Study: HPV Gardasil Vaccine Linked to Decline in Fertility Rates in U.S. Women Aged 25–29
https://www.healthnutnews.com/expert-believes-the-lower-teen-birth-rate-may-be-due-to-infertility-from-gardasil/
https://vaccineimpact.com/2014/are-gmo-foods-toxic-chemicals-and-big-pharma-producing-an-infertile-generation/

[john70t]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Non-vaccinated sorts become infected then seek treatment at the expense of everyone.

Good points made there.
But I'm wondering what the 'true' total public costs of some of our policies are.
(such as decreased efficiency via lower IQ)

It's a complicated subject.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

An open-eyed person has to ask why such a large percentage of autism in the last 40 years or more.
Yes, I have read the journals and they are written like damage control.

I have a friend who just retired from a career as a special needs educator. I asked her that same question some time ago. Her answer:
"30 years ago we just called them retarded. The difference is in the diagnosis and how granular we have gotten in identifying symptoms."

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Non-vaccinated sorts become infected then seek treatment at the expense of everyone. Not only financially when on the public dole, but in the form of avoidably and disproportionately soaking up healthcare resources that could be used for much less easily preventable or predictable situations...

Kinda like those who smoke tobacco or Canabis or those who vape?

This is coming from someone who lost his mom, a life long smoker, to lung cancer at 64. She never got me meet her grandchildren.

I think there are lower hanging fish out there to catch if we are worried about saving medical costs by not treating people who got sick from self inflicted illnesses.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I have a friend who just retired from a career as a special needs educator. I asked her that same question some time ago. Her answer:
"30 years ago we just called them retarded. The difference is in the diagnosis and how granular we have gotten in identifying symptoms."

That's what I think.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I have a friend who just retired from a career as a special needs educator. I asked her that same question some time ago. Her answer:
"30 years ago we just called them retarded. The difference is in the diagnosis and how granular we have gotten in identifying symptoms."

There is a lot of truth to this. I also think that many parents these days are quick to give their kids Tylenol and other over the counter drugs at a very young age for no reason.

I remember some very close friends of ours used to give their son Tylenol every night at bed time to help him get to sleep. My wife and I were mortified.

The boy is now ‘on the spectrum’. He is a smart kid but has difficulties. Was it the vaccinations, the Tylenol, other factors, or some combination thereof?

We seldom give our kids drugs and waited until they were 12 months old before they were vaccinated so their immune systems could develop on their own off of breast milk, etc. This is very similar to what the drug companies reccomend we do with our calves, why should it be different with people (breast milk or not)?

[john70t]

(gee isn't it nice that every human being is now fully categorized by the government medical system..)

[Jolly Amaranto]

There are also some children with compromised immune systems who are unable to take the vaccines. When the majority of the herd is immunized these children are less likely to catch those diseases. When a high proportion of children are not vaccinated those diseases will be more common putting at a greater risk the children with compromised immune systems. A double whammy as they are less likely to survive.

[legion]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

There is a lot of truth to this. I also think that many parents these days are quick to give their kids Tylenol and other over the counter drugs at a very young age for no reason.

I remember some very close friends of ours used to give their son Tylenol every night at bed time to help him get to sleep. My wife and I were mortified.

The boy is now ‘on the spectrum’. He is a smart kid but has difficulties. Was it the vaccinations, the Tylenol, other factors, or some combination thereof?

I have three small children. I have given each of them Tylenol, but never "just because". The only OTC medications you can even give children 5 and under that I am aware of are Tylenol, Ibuprofen, and Benadryl.

I gave my 3 year old Tylenol twice and Benadryl twice this past week, but only because he had a severe cold and was crying from the sinus pressure. We called the doctor, discussed the symptoms, and the doctor confirmed that it was okay to administer and gave us a dosage. He got each once per day. We discontinued use after two days when his symptoms improved--he still has a cold, but the sinus pressure is not giving him headaches. We often go months without administering any medicine to any of our children.

[Ziggythecat]

Autism presents itself when children are toddlers, which is the same time children are vaccinated, leading many to draw the erroneous conclusion that the two are connected, despite all scientific evidence and studies showing no correlation
Some blame the minute amount of mercury in the vaccine, again in the face of science.
One of my best friends in the world is convinced that his son’s autism was a direct result of his being vaccinated, because his autism presented a few months after he was vaccinated.

As far as vaccines being only 70% effective, that’s all the more reason to have as much of the herd protected as possible.
To send an individual through life unvaccinated is a threat to the rest of us, as well as the individual themselves.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by legion

I gave my 3 year old Tylenol twice and Benadryl twice this past week, but only because he had a severe cold and was crying from the sinus pressure.

As a young child, I had headaches and eustachian drain tubes put in my ears to help drain them.
There is a lot of mildew in my neighborhood for some reason.
It coats houses/fences/cars/plants. Everything around here.

Another non-drug natural remedy for sinus is to put lemon and eucalyptus in a pot of hot water.
Cover head with towel and breathe.

I occasionally use tea tree oil.
Apply one or two drops on a swap and rub on outer ears.
It will burn like hell for an hour but it works.

(Also check for mold/mildew or other environmental influences. Some meds are not good for kidneys/livers.)