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Noah930's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Mail fraud committed on a private employer is a federal crime in certain circumstances. As a practical matter it has to be pretty egregious before the feds will indict.
I understand that, but how did the Feds even know this was going on? That was my question. If some university AD (or even a secretary in the athletic department) finds out about these shenanigans, they might call the NCAA, but not necessarily the FBI.

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Originally Posted by zelrik911 View Post
Big IRS involvement. Looks like there is a FAKE charity somewhere in this.

The huge donations to this charity organisation would have been claimed as tax deductions. So their kids get into the exclusive school and you, as taxpayers, pay for it.
I see. So that's what may have tipped off this whole investigation: tax evasion.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:04 AM
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If university employees are setting up fake charities to rinse bribes AND the bribe payers are knowingly or unknowingly deducting those bribes from their taxes, then I can see some RICO and conspiracy charges. But I don't see how it's the feds' business when universities bend the rules in exchange for cash. It's always been done and it's always been legal.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:07 AM
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Seems like the point of diminishing returns here, no?

Pay big bucks for a private school, kid doesn't make grades for college.
Pay big bucks to bribe kid's way into a big name college, where kid also likely won't make grades.
Bribe teachers/administrators to improve kid's grades.
Kid goes into workforce with a fake education and no work ethic, can't cut it.

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to give the little leach some money and a house to just live life? Though I suppose that doesn't give you bragging rights at the yacht club either.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:12 AM
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The reason this should be a crime is that there are victims. For every undeserving student who gets in via cheating or bribery, there's a deserving student who doesn't get in. That would be a victim in my book.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ckissick View Post
The reason this should be a crime is that there are victims. For every undeserving student who gets in via cheating or bribery, there's a deserving student who doesn't get in. That would be a victim in my book.
Until they make basing admissions on race and ethnicity a crime, bribes are just as injurious to otherwise deserving students. Unless we want a federal law that all college admission must be based on merit alone, well, you can see where that would lead.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy View Post
Kid goes into workforce with a fake education and no work ethic, can't cut it.
Those kids never go to a real workplace. This is about prestige, not learning, not working.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:23 AM
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I'm pretty sure that the Fed's wouldn't have been interested absent the tax evasion angle.

It's apparent that the parents wanted the prestige / social aspects of these schools for their children. No doubt these schools provide the opportunity to make top shelf social connections for the rest of life, regardless of academic commitment.

A couple things jumped out at me -

It's very interesting that the "facilitator" was able to use the proctor to fix test results. If nothing else pretty sloppy control by the testing organization.

The universities were either complicit or they had no oversight of the sports teams. They were granting sports scholarships to students who were never on the teams? How could the administration miss that?

Two of my kids applied to Ivy's with academic records that would have gotten them in had they been minorities. They really didn't have a chance for the Ivies, but they did fine at their schools.

Two of my nieces got Division One sports scholarships. One niece never played (sidelined by the coach the first summer, no realistic chance after that). I found that really odd. My brother speculated that the coach may have been just reserving her away from other schools. I was interested that she had enough scholarship slots to do such a thing.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:28 AM
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According to the news I watched this morning the Feds were investigating something else when they found this mess . It was reported that the investigation has been going on for 8 years !!! There will be much more to this case I'm sure .
Old 03-13-2019, 07:30 AM
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These folks want their kids in a name brand college for bragging rights and with the hope that they may meet someone smart that they can latch onto.

All these schemes are very brazen and participating in them would clearly show your disregard for any laws and rules and it probably means you cheat at every other tough point of your life.

What amused me was reading through case by case and some of the dumber kids. The parents had to pay tens of thousands to "improve" their score to something barely in the 80th percentile. Even this "famous" girl at USC, they paid 500k (!) to get her in USC. Haha! University of Spoiled Children. I know literally no college applicant that wants a top education strive to go there. They did a good job building a brand as a "desirable" private school.

I hope they throw the book at these folks and pull the kids where still possible. It certainly will sting for the celebrities to be in the news with this stuff.

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Old 03-13-2019, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
If university employees are setting up fake charities to rinse bribes AND the bribe payers are knowingly or unknowingly deducting those bribes from their taxes, then I can see some RICO and conspiracy charges. But I don't see how it's the feds' business when universities bend the rules in exchange for cash. It's always been done and it's always been legal.
The universities were not involved. It was individuals that pocketed the cash.

The parents lied on school admission applications. The parents fabricated information to bqck up the lies on the application. The Parents gave funds to an individual that was not in school employ. The individual paid others to change sat scores by correcting errors. They paid individuals to take tests for the kids. They paid individuals in school employ to lie about a possible recruit. This wss all done with the parents understanding and approval. The FBI recorded some of the conversations.

Here are the actual charges. Racketeering is a charge

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admissions-and-testing-bribery-scheme
Old 03-13-2019, 08:01 AM
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckissick View Post
The reason this should be a crime is that there are victims. For every undeserving student who gets in via cheating or bribery, there's a deserving student who doesn't get in. That would be a victim in my book.
Then there are lots of victims out there
Old 03-13-2019, 08:07 AM
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Rick, I'd suggest you consult a criminal lawyer before embarking on your next business venture . . . your instincts about what is and isn't a crime are not very accurate :-)
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:10 AM
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My daughter's boss in Louisville recently purchased a slightly used 2017 Audi S7 from a Univ basketball player. But that's a whole other higher education fraud discussion. And the link between escalating tuition costs vs ease of obtaining student loans are another ...
Old 03-13-2019, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 1990C4S View Post
Those kids never go to a real workplace. This is about prestige, not learning, not working.
The daughter of Massimo and Lori Loughlin has a Youtube channel. She is what is known as an "influencer", kind of like a low level Kardashian, their only "job" is to start trends and push products.

Apparently this "scandal" could be bad for business and she might have to get a real job.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
Until they make basing admissions on race and ethnicity a crime, bribes are just as injurious to otherwise deserving students. Unless we want a federal law that all college admission must be based on merit alone, well, you can see where that would lead.
I agree.

My friend's kid, valedictorian, captain of volley ball team, service hours at their local senior homes for two the last two years of her high school career, and on and on with activities and not one UC school accepted her. So WTF? Both parents are both aerospace engineers from Torrance Ca. I know, dad's a white dude from Alabama and mom's Japanese American. Maybe that's why? At least that's what dad tells me.

Her dad showed me this study by Princeton University on SAT scores. Black students are given free 300 points and hispanics are given something like 160 where as white students both male and female are given the score they actual get. No bonus, nothing. Asians are docked something like 50 points. With that system, wouldn't you cheat and pay your way for your kids too? Something to think about? I think this was admission to Harvard. I will try and look for the study and link it when I have a few
Old 03-13-2019, 08:24 AM
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They say they even photoshopped the kid's heads onto group photos of rowing and water polo members to make it look like they had been on the team and were eligible for "scholarships".
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:27 AM
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Just another case of Affirmative Action for the wealthy.... so what else is new ???
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
Until they make basing admissions on race and ethnicity a crime, bribes are just as injurious to otherwise deserving students. Unless we want a federal law that all college admission must be based on merit alone, well, you can see where that would lead.
All the kids would be named Lee?
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigster59 View Post
They say they even photoshopped the kid's heads onto group photos of rowing and water polo members to make it look like they had been on the team and were eligible for "scholarships".
I don't know if the scholarship was necessarily the goal, or just a way to get the (dumber) kids in through admissions. After all, it's not like these kids' parents need the money. And it's not as if these kids would actually participate in these sports once they matriculated.

Rather, there's always a relaxed set of academic standards for athletes. It's perhaps unspoken, but it's the truth. My guess is that one way for a kid with otherwise substandard grades/test scores to get in, would be to have them slip in under a prospective athlete label. Once they matriculate, the fact that they don't play the sport isn't important--they just become a regular student, "lose" the scholarship, and pay regular tuition/housing/books/fees. Then that NCAA-allotted athletic scholarship would go to some other kid actually recruited by the athletic department (but admitted on straight academics, with the promise that a scholarship would be waiting for them). Everybody's happy. Though maybe not the Feds.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:41 AM
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