The opiod epidemic....

[KFC911]

Watched an hour long documentary last night...what big pharma has done to this country in the quest for profits is no different than the herion cartels.....neither one gives a damn about anything but $

[fintstone]

I really don’t understand how it is so much a pharma issue as a criminal one. When one can sell a bottle of medicine that cost them a dollar or two (after insurance) for a thousand...it is little wonder they do so. Especially since the nation seems to have a large segment that self medicate with drugs from alcohol to marijuana and the marketing is massive that it is not only ok....but anyone who points out the dangers is simply an uncaring ass. The same for opioids. They are an effective pain killer...and doctors must prescribe it for patients who claim severe pain to meet required standards of care. Time to crack down on all illegal drug sales and throw the book at those who sell illegal drugs. It is also time to ask Hollywood to stop glorifying drug use.

[tadd]

KC:
I fall into the liberal category on almost all things social, and truly belive that government has a place in helping those in society. Often times I do disagree with how the idea is played out, but the idea is sound.

For example, love canal exists. Upton Sinclar wrote about the meat packing industry, ect. People do bad things against society and society protects itself with governmental laws.

That said, I do recognize that deep down we as individuals are society. Government can only protect the normal from the 3rd deviation. In other words, people as individuals have to choose to watch their individual medications for themselves. Should those drugs be regulated pure by the government? You bet. I shouldn't have to have an NMR in my basement to know if what is on the bottle is in the bottle. Part of why the FDA exists is a bad run of sulfa drugs killing thousands.

My wife will be having pretty major surgical procedure soon to deal with cancer, this crazy opioid crap would have her sent home with Tylenol by default unless she asks for stronger. WTF. Opioids have there place since they don't contribute to bleeding like NSAIDs do. After surgery, you might like to minimize bleeding and not have to suffer from pain!

Bottom line. Pharma didn't do squat. People and their doctors did.

[KFC911]

Nope....we just disagree. When big pharma is selling enough "heroin in a pill" to get EVERY single American addicted, each year, then follow the money. Though pain managament is a REAL issue, and should be addressed humanely imo...docs and big pharma actually push this crap on the unsuspecting public . I haven't had more than an aspirin since college, but I'm just damn lucky. 30 years sgo, I had vaguely heard of Percocet (and how addictive it was), so after a knee sugery, when the doc prescribed 50 Percocets for me to take, I went to the drug store and asked for 2....just in case...never took one. If I had followed the doctors orders, then I would have been addicted to opium....ten years later, Oxy hit the scene, and here we are....

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by tadd

...

Bottom line. Pharma didn't do squat. People and their doctors did.

When Oxy was developed, big pharma had an intense marketing campaign towards doctors, and hid the darker side...it's dangerously addictive...we all know that now....they knew it then, but convinced the docs otherwise imo

[PorscheGAL]

Article about McKesson and opioids, if you're interested.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/mckesson-dea-opioids-fine/2017/12/14/ab50ad0e-db5b-11e7-b1a8-62589434a581_story.html?utm_term=.a8e8c646763e

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I really don’t understand how it is so much a pharma issue as a criminal one. When one can sell a bottle of medicine that cost them a dollar or two (after insurance) for a thousand...it is little wonder they do so. Especially since the nation seems to have a large segment that self medicate with drugs from alcohol to marijuana and the marketing is massive that it is not only ok....but anyone who points out the dangers is simply an uncaring ass. The same for opioids. They are an effective pain killer...and doctors must prescribe it for patients who claim severe pain to meet required standards of care. Time to crack down on all illegal drug sales and throw the book at those who sell illegal drugs. It is also time to ask Hollywood to stop glorifying drug use.

It is a pharma issue when the doctors are in their pockets and prescribing the legal drugs like hotcakes.

Y'all get painkillers like candy in the us.
here you gotta be End Stage Cancer with only a couple of weeks to live, and then you might get Fentanyl, but the doc will give you a stern warning 'Not to much, wouldn't want you do get addicted before you die from your cancer"

Seriously in the US you get light opiods for things that we get a prescription of Ibuprofen for.
And yes, Ibuprofen is a prescription drug here. Not kidding you.

Y'all have to easy access to heavy legal drugs because Big Pharma doesn't want to see any stricter rules as that would impact their sales. Fact.
They use the revolving door with the FDA and they use it very effectively.

Those who review the drugs leave the FDA all the time to go work with the Pharmaceutical companies. So who are they working for , do you think?

Jobs taken after working in the FDA’s Oncology Products Division :

[fintstone]

What leads you to believe that doctors are “in the pocket” of pharma?

Where would you expect people who worked at FDA onocolgy to work after leaving? McDonalds?

[Peterfrans]

Originally Posted by svandamme

And yes, Ibuprofen is a prescription drug here. Not kidding you.

Well, maybe in Belgium, but here in NL we can buy ibuprofen in the supermarket.

[tadd]

KC:
Every drug has side effects. We are complicated systems of systems of systems.

Medication should be between you and your doctor. USE as appropriate! Government should ensure purity and published efficacy.

Two famous examples... COX2 inhibitors. Did a ton of good for a huge number of people (10s of millions). Triggered heart attacks in less than a thousand. Drug was pulled. Thalimaide (sp?). Amazing medication for leprosy. Pulled cause it got tried for morning sickness and lead to birth defects.

There is a patient/doctor relationship. In theory, this should be a meeting of equal minds. However, most tend to just defer and many doctors don't take the time to ensure the patient understands the benefits and risks (they do have other patients to see... and some folks can be dense). Should the doctor be a bartender? Calling a halt when its clear there shouldn't be an issue? I would say yes, as that falls under their oath. Prescribing an opiate for pain isn't the problem. Re-upping that script long after it shouldn't be required doesn't do anyone any good, but get the patient out of the doctors office.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by svandamme

It is a pharma issue when the doctors are in their pockets and prescribing the legal drugs like hotcakes.

They use the revolving door with the FDA and they use it very effectively.

Those who review the drugs leave the FDA all the time to go work with the Pharmaceutical companies. So who are they working for , do you think?

Jobs taken after working in the FDA’s Oncology Products Division :

You are exaggerating. I worked as a Regulatory Affairs professional for 15 years after 30 years as a research chemist. That "revolving door" you so blithely refer to stops quickly and more frequently than you know. It is not easy nor quick to get medications through the FDA. Heck even toothpaste is subjected to federal regulation.

Doctors in our pockets? What a joke. We can't even buy them a meal without approval and documentation.

Yes FDA officials do find employment in the industry after life in the FDA. It's their chance to finally make decent money using their education and skills. But they are subject to the same scrutiny that any Pharma scientist is and we do get reviewed, thoroughly by the gov't checking into shady practices. The Park Doctrine can reach deeply into an organization.

Anyone still under the impression that Rx meds are completely safe and without risk has been asleep for decades. Even Ibuprofen has risks.

[tadd]

SV:
Hyperbole much? At least I hope so... A doctor telling a patient that has is priorities all wrong.

End of life and geriatric care is a very different beast than treating the rest of the population with respect to how medications/treatments are provided. Typically medicines are looser and procedures are tighter. My FIL is 81. He has horrible arthritis. Who cares if he is on opiates if he can get about now and better enjoy his remaining years? We, as a family, just make sure he doesn't drive. Like most things, its about making choices and if that choice (medication in this instance) benefits you.

[KFC911]

Addiction to pharma opium is a disease that is gonna kill a LOT of people today....a disease that wasn't even on the radar 25 years ago. The root cause of this disease is increasing profits for the suppliers...

Anyone want to comment on the link Stephanie posted? I've seen it before, so I wasn't news to me....

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by tadd

SV:
Hyperbole much? At least I hope so... A doctor telling a patient that has is priorities all wrong.

End of life and geriatric care is a very different beast than treating the rest of the population with respect to how medications/treatments are provided. Typically medicines are looser and procedures are tighter. My FIL is 81. He has horrible arthritis. Who cares if he is on opiates if he can get about now and better enjoy his remaining years? We, as a family, just make sure he doesn't drive. Like most things, its about making choices and if that choice (medication in this instance) benefits you.

Just to be clear...I agree with you 100% for opiod use for these folks....give 'em anything and everything....

[tadd]

KC:
So my comment to the article posted is that a pharma company was acting as an ILLEGAL drug 'dealer/supplier'.

IMHO, that is something that government should be involved with as society has determined that government has a place in societal security.

Which begs an interesting point I hadn't considered yet... are the deaths and 'epidemic' due to illegal opioid use or prescription? Has that been broken down?

Sometimes PARF makes me think. Most of the time it makes me hold my nose :-).

[ckelly78z]

This whole "I deserve no discomfort, or pain" attitude that most people have is the problem. I have been through some hellish injuries, and sicknesses and never gotten hooked any any pain meds. After my recent car accident, with a pelvis shattered in 10 places, broken foot, and 4 ribs, I took Oxycontin for about 2 days when I was finally able to come home. I couldn't stand the side effects, so I didn't take ANYTHING else including OTC drugs. I believe that most people are scared of pain, so they medicate every little ache, and ailment. My MIL asked me for the remainder of my Oxy presciption for an ailment she had been nursing for 6 months, and had run it's course of prescriptions from 2 different doctors.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by tadd

KC:
So my comment to the article posted is that a pharma company was acting as an ILLEGAL drug 'dealer/supplier'.

IMHO, that is something that government should be involved with as society has determined that government has a place in societal security.

Which begs an interesting point I hadn't considered yet... are the deaths and 'epidemic' due to illegal opioid use or prescription? Has that been broken down?

Sometimes PARF makes me think. Most of the time it makes me hold my nose :-).

Tadd...it's both imo but have no idea of the ratio....pharma verses heroin use here. The experts agree on this however....most of the heroin addicts got addicted to prescription pain meds initially....

I live in a relatively small city of 100k...there were 300 overdoses and 17 deaths by OD last year....heroin has flooded the streets to fill the demand also....it sucks. There is no way to stereotype the users....it's permeated every aspect of our society....

[ckelly78z]

You can blame big Pharma, or the prescribing doctors if you want, but ultimately, it is the weak willed consumer who is popping the pills, and demanding more, creating an addiction.

As far as treating these overdoses, I don't see the reason to provide free, unlimited Nalaxone doses for these addicts at a huge cost for the taxpayers....let Darwin do his work.

Even with Nalaxone being administered, my rather rural county in Ohio had 19 deaths last year from the opiod problem.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

This whole "I deserve no discomfort, or pain" attitude that most people have is the problem. I have been through some hellish injuries, and sicknesses and never gotten hooked any any pain meds. After my recent car accident, with a pelvis shattered in 10 places, broken foot, and 4 ribs, I took Oxycontin for about 2 days when I was finally able to come home. I couldn't stand the side effects, so I didn't take ANYTHING else including OTC drugs. I believe that most people are scared of pain, so they medicate every little ache, and ailment. My MIL asked me for the remainder of my Oxy presciption for an ailment she had been nursing for 6 months, and had run it's course of prescriptions from 2 different doctors.

You're spot on...I've cringed when I've read your story before and what you've endured. I broke my nose in college....doc gave me a Tylenol 3 (fairly mild codeine boost) for my walk back to the dorm.....I didn't like how it made me feel and haven't taken anything else for pain in almost 4 decades....I'm no superman, but cringe when I think about those 50 Percocets that doc needlessly prescribed for me....

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

You can blame big Pharma, or the prescribing doctors if you want, but ultimately, it is the weak willed consumer who is popping the pills, and demanding more, creating an addiction.

....

Even with Nalaxone being administered, my rather rural county in Ohio had 19 deaths last year from the opiod problem.

Don't agree with the first part....many folks will do what the doc says or take whatever prescription he writes with no questions asked.

Second part....yep, there's no telling how many OD were not fatal last year due to Nalaxone...LEOs, etc. all carry it here too...