Five grand won’t buy you crap anymore and the OP doesn’t live anywhere near Tyson, or anyone like him.

$5k is a decent machine shop budget for a full rebuild, including twin plug modification. I DIY’d my 930 engine build, and yes there was a bunch of “while you’re in there” stuff, but the total cost of parts and machine shop labor was almost $20k. Pistons and cylinders ~$4k alone. Had I not done twin plug, and not done case machining for 100mm pistons, I could have shaved 4-5k from the total cost.

Part of the disparity in cost is because “rebuild” can be anything from a top end reseal/re-ring, to crank out full monty.

The parts are very expensive. Try pricing out just bearings and gasket sets to do a full rebuild and you’ll be over 1k already.

Only the one paying the tab can decide if it's worth it.

For sure, it’s a couple decades later and the cars are 4x as much as well. The funny thing is that I was making a lot of money in those days and wasn’t really concerned w costs. I was just all-in on the process of doing a great job. :)

Befire you dial up the SC drive some other P-cars.

G50 3.2, 964, and a 996.

You may find a 'faster' car you like for less money.

I am not a fan of adding a lot of power to anything with a 915.

And I'm not a fan of 'upgrades' that make a small difference.

Anyone have any experience with the Ruf 3.2 SC kit? I see they still sell them.

A few years ago, I needed to rebuild the engine in my 1980 SC due to broken head studs and some other issues. After a lot of reading and picking brains, I finally decided to do a 3.3SS with Carrera twin plug heads, 964 cams and Electromotive XDi ignition. I replaced the air box with an early, large port box and basically replumbed it like a 73.5. The Mahle pistons were supposed to be 10.1:1 compression but wound up being about 10.8:1 due to previous machining on the heads. The end result is an engine that starts easily, runs well on pump premium and revs like crazy. Someday I might pull the CIS off and replace it with a set of PMOs but I wanted to see what the CIS would do on a built engine. By shopping around and getting good pricing on most of the parts I wound up with about $10-$12K in this engine. I performed all the labor so that probably saved around $10K or so. It can be done!

I like the idea of the Fred. I plan to lurk and learn and prep so that I can do the work myself. I like the idea of slowly carefully building my own engine. And who knows maybe in a few years I’ll up the budget a bit.

I posted something like this on your other thread:

I was talking about camshaft grinds. You do know that there are spreadsheets and programs that take in consideration of the other parameters, right? It's real easy to buy a certain CR when you get your P and C's. And you can put all kinds of induction on it. You can run an infinite number of ignition curves. But the one thing you can't change (other than CR) is the cam profile. That's what makes it all happen. And the cam can be designed not only for how the rest of the motor is set up, but for how you want to drive. Fast car on the street? Don't need a high rev long overlap duration. You need something that the tranny likes in all the gears but 5th. You aren't going to hit the rev limiter in 5th. Ever. The jump in RPM drop is pretty significant it your trans hasn't been re-geared to short ratios between the meat gears. That cam needs to build some torque.

Yea, this thread was more about fishing out broader engine build options. Like 3.2ss vs 3.3ss and which heads do people like or which heads and displacement might work best with my 46mm pmo’s I know the cam is the cherry on top of a well balanced selection of bits.

This was more about a broader engine build theories I guess.

Having 46mm PMOs on a stock SC motor w stock cams=a pig. You need someone who can get it dialed-in properly in the first place before evaluating its performance.

For sure on that. If the SC motor is stock, it shouldn't have carbs on it at all. That's why I suggested a turbo (it would be a mild boost) on a CIS. Pistons and cam overlap are designed specifically for CIS.

I didn't used to think much of CIS especially after blowing the air box off the 2.7 we had "back then." That would be way before Pelican. However, after an Andial rebuild the thing was reasonably quick. They made sure the CIS was in perfect tune.

CIS in proper fettle is a fine fuel delivery system. A lot better than carbs in most ways.

There isn't a single build theory presented in this thread, or anywhere, that will give you anything close to the outright, "Hoooollllyyyy shiiiittttt" acceleration from your 3.2 that turbocharging would (I know you already know this, but are still resisting the turbo powahhhhh, for some strange reason . . . do you actually like Fred Flintstone motoring, deep down?!?! :D).

Rawknees, you are the devil. I almost bought a 3.2 intake to put aside for a turbo build, then the trans issue arose.... so I had to back out of that deal. My overall plan was to sell the 915 at some point and pick up a 930 trans, cost is high but the durability is nice.

I am still not against turboing the car... but every time I step my lil foot into the HP waters I just think to myself "just get a Vette you IDIOT".

I think a turbo on my 3L would be a riot, but can't see the 915 lasting very long with that. Maybe I'll get the trans sorted and give the turbo another thought... I know a lot of 3/3.2 people are running them with great success and POWERS. :D

A 930 gearbox would be an absolute disaster in your SC.

You don’t have twisty roads where you are, acceleration seems to be important to you, getting a Corvette is not a bad idea.

This and this.

I do NOT mean this as a put-down but you are not a Porsche guy. Porsches are great cars, (much better than Corvettes, IMO), but brute acceleration was never their forte. Without canyons or a race track/road course nearby, I honestly do not see the appeal of driving a 911 unless you just love the looks/sound/smell of them so much that going from traffic light to traffic light is exciting to you.

When I sold them years ago at the dealership, every once in a while we'd get a guy or woman who really was a Corvette person. They wanted V-8 grunt off the line, not a refined German sports car. That did not make them bad people or inferior to Porsche people, just different strokes.

Most real Porsche enthusiasts are fanatical about the cars, way beyond reason when you get out the calculator and compare dollars to HP. This was especially true back in the 356 days, when other car nuts just absolutely did not "get" Porsche guys. The cars made zero sense to them. Of course now, the new Porsches are fast and performance is awesome but the $$/HP still doesn't add up unless you just have to have a Porsche.

Porsche enthusiasts were usually obsessed w the cars, new 911 customers often knew more about the cars than we did at the dealer and it was a matter of just letting them stew in the showroom w their chin in their fist for long periods of time, doing their own calculating and decision making process. Your general lack of Porsche knowledge and curiosity, (wanting to install a 930 trans or putting PMO 46s on a stock SC motor), suggests that you are not a Porsche guy.

Back in the early '80s, when RUF was just making performance parts and modifying Porsches for customers, one of their most popular upgrades was putting a fortified 915 in 930 turbo cars so that they had 5-speeds. I've never seen anyone try to put a 930 trans in an SC, that's just lack of knowledge or interest in learning. And the 915 is a fantastic transmission up to its power limits. The problem is the owner or owners of your car, not the transmission.

Have you tried the 911 tech board here? It's 10x the size of OT and just loaded w specific knowledge, (and some kooks as well, to be fair), it's the place to learn about Porsches.

When someone says "I'm telling the truth", or "I do NOT mean this as a put-down" the opposite is usually true.

I did not decide to put 46mm PMO's on a stock car... they cam with the car I bought... I suggested the idea of a 930 trans on a turbo application, as it HAS been done (IE Derek Whitacare in LA.) and I thought it might be an idea worth exploring.... we can not all be born with the inherent Porsche knowledge that you have, for some it's a curve.

As I have tried to make clear this was an exploration post meant to flush out the learnings of others for my benefit so that I can learn. Apparently you require that I come to the table having learned everything before I can join your "Porsche guy" club.

I am not the first person to drive a car that they like very much and say, "man that was cool, but more would be better". Pretty sure Porsche did this 5 minutes before inventing the Turbo Carrera.

I am simply trying to get points of view on how people might approach that question, and rather than get specific in the tech section I thought OT might offer some more general approaches that I could then diver deeper on.

I will agree that I am not a Porsche guy, perhaps an automotive guy would fit better as I find interest in many makes and models of cars.

In 1986, I was driving a 1983 911SC that I bought new and had modified to the extent that I could with the usual bolt-on goodies for improving the power. I had made the car quicker, but I wanted more. I did the math and ended up buying a new 930 and selling the 911SC.

Eventually, I even modified the damn 930.

The correct solution is always to buy a faster car. Been there, done that, more times than I care to count. Take my word for it, or learn the hard way.

Yea, that's why I tend to think that you need a few cars depending on the flavor of the day.

I think that a well sorted 3L with some hot cams and ITB in a 2200lb car could be very fun. For those power days a nice Cobra kit would fit better.... kinda my longer term plan I think.

It’ll take you some work to get an SC down to 2200 pounds. It can be done, but it’s not cheap.

If you build a 3 L engine with mechanical fuel injection, you can add quite a bit of money to the budget I previously expressed. If you want to go with electronic injection and individual throttle bodies, I wish you luck.

You described my ‘83 911 race car, though its a little heavier than 2200 with fuel as its all steel body. My 3L is not maxxed out as race engines go, but it does require 100 octane fuel. Made 270hp at the wheels, rev limit is 7200. 915 trans has short gears and you hit rev limit in 5th at ~135mph. It is the most fun car to drive that I have experienced.

Forget building an engine, forget the Cobra, just go and buy this...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/1028028-1984-930-blk-blk.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556496839.jpg

That is a very cool 930... sadly i'm a few years away from making a decision... and with impact cars prices starting to cool and drop i'll likely loose money on my car. LOL the only guy to lose money on a Porsche 911. Hahahaha

My car is 2450, and still runs the steel bumpers, OEM seats, and a big fat battery.... I think I can get under 2300 pretty easy.

I think this thread has done everything you have asked for.

And more than a few have suggested not putting any significant money in your SC to up the whoopee factor. When you brought out the fact that a Cobra kit car might very well be in your future, I think you called it. You can get one for not much more than you will yield selling the SC.

Low boost (.5-.7 bar) turbo setup is REALLY nice and minuscule in cost to a "built" motor.

Yes I am! :)

Fook the Vett idea - where is the challenge in that?! :) All you need is this (plus a BOV valve, or recirculation valve if the fuel system utilizes metered air, which this animation doesn't have) if you want to make that car of yours actually move forward at a rapid pace!

A properly reinforced 915 would be okay if you keep horsepower and torque below 300 - above that, and you'd need a 930 or g50 box to have any faith that it won't let you down.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...op80qd2gif.gif

I have had a lot of variations of 911s over the years including a serious built SC 3.0 and a 3.6 in a 72 model, a couple of 993s and 964s, Turbos, etc.. People have been building hopped up 3.0s for the last 20+ years but that $15K build will not perform near as well on any level as a bone stock $15K 3.6. I will take a stock bigger displacement/higher HP motor over a hopped up one on any day.. Ive been there and done that many times and in my experience, thats the way to go. Ass others have mentioned, the smartest thing to do, would be to sell it and buy a newer 996/cayman, etc, but i get the alure of the classic 911.

Rawks, what do you mean when you say a properly reinforced 915, just wondering what all the entails?

Also STOP watering the turbo seed that has permanent residence in my head. ;)

I do find it amusing that in the Porsche community that anyone wanting to turn the power up is instantly not meant for a Porsche, or doesn't understand the refinement of the car or any other of a list of condescending adjectives.

I LOVE boost, but I have to admit that I am very drawn to the NA 3.6 option, I just think that the total cost will be very high all thing said and done, not to mention the issue of stressing out the 915 behind a 3.6 If the used 3.6 market hadn't gone bonkers it might be a much better option, but these days I think you'd be hard pressed to get there under 30K

I love the Porsche, maybe 220-240HP would be more fun that I think in a sup 2300lb car. The childhood dream garage was a 911 next to a Cobra anyway sooooo. ;)

I'm sorry that you are taking good advice as an insult. You came here looking for help, (and you need it), people who know engines are taking the time to explain things and you're whining.

Do whatever you want to the schitbox. Who cares. It's been owned by at least two people who are clueless, the first being the one who threw the CIS away because of some minor and completely fixable issue, (CIS is as simple as FI systems get), and spent IDK how much $$ to put carburetors on it that are suited for some completely different engine. Now it's a slow, fuel-guzzling POS w a transmission that no one ever maintained. And you are blaming the car.

People who are too arrogant to learn how things work and just close their eyes and throw darts don't do well w these cars.

It's pretty clear to me now. Some people dive their cars from within while others are looking at the reflection in windows as they drive past.

There are lots of things that can be done to a 915 transmission, they are not all alike and there are pros and cons to a lot of the factory pieces, plus a bunch of aftermarket upgrades for one purpose or another.

The 8:31 differential is stronger than the 7:31, the intermediate bearing plates on some versions are weaker than others, there are reinforced differential side cover plates, etc. Bottom line, you can add many thousands of dollars in upgrades to your already expensive rebuild.

Horsepower isn’t generally a problem, it’s the torque. A high horsepower motor that is biased to power in the upper RPM ranges, seldom has enough torque to seriously dent the life of the transmission. Turbocharged engines usually make more torque, so are more of a problem.

The problem that you seem to have with some of our comments is that, on the one hand you want all this horsepower, but on the other hand you don’t want to spend a lot of money to get there. Some of us have been driving these cars our entire lives and what we’re trying to tell you is that those two goals are mutually incompatible. You get a lot more performance for your dollar from other types of cars. A 911 of that era is simply not an inexpensive car to get to the performance levels that you’re asking for.

A 911 is designed for the type of road you don’t have in your area. Even a stock ‘82 can be safely driven at a pace that is not even remotely legal on such roads and can be very challenging. It will never be much when launched from a stoplight. Half the cars out there today will blow your doors off and that’s just a fact.

That’s true, but I never understood why people could think that way. Certainly not my cup of tea...

LOL, so now wanting two very different driving experiences is about being an attention whore?
You ignore 4 pages of context to conjure a narrative that fits what you want? Yea Zeke you "nailed" it, I just want people to look at me.

Speeder you seem to take a pride in being kind of a dick... not sure why. You seem to like throwing straw man arguments up. If you have specific engine options offer them, if not move along.

I have not presented myself as arrogant, at least that was certainly not my intention. I have mentioned several times my desire to learn and obtain the knowledge from those that do know. Perhaps anyone who doesn't immediately take you advice as divine truth is arrogant.

Thanks Java, I know I balk at the costs of some of the Porsche power options... all but the most devoted or wealthy have to admit that the costs are pretty insane at times. For me it's trying to find the right balance of cost to power that will keep a grin on my face. It might be 200 well tuned HP it might be more, I am not really sure.

I do know that this is my Porsche, that I see as a canvas to paint what I want my Porsche to be. I know that it will change with time and that's okay too. I will do me best to listen to it and learn from it for years to come.

I know it's not a drag car, I guess in my mind Mr. Olsens car might be close to what I imagine is a perfect power balance for an N/A 911, my thinking was to push my car in that direction within a more modest budget.

Yo' Geronimo, have I mentioned that turbo powaaahhhhh is the only way to go if you really want a "grin" on your face (or maybe a look of "ohhhhh shiiitttt!!!"), and don't want to make excuses for why a 911 is slow from a dig ("it's a momentum car meant for the twisties only")?!?! :D.

I garuntee you that all pinings for the romantic idea of n/a power will disappear instantly the first time you open the throttle. And talk about acceleration while already traveling at highway speeds :eek: - would have a built, n/a 911 crying for its mama!

That's not what I said. However, you do remind me of the kid that had a Lamborghini Countach and Farrah Fawcett poster on the wall and since you couldn't have one, you'd bygod get the other.

He clearly did by saying what you shouldn't do and that was use carbs on your motor but rather restore the induction to CIS.

Kinda where I was going with my statement about seeing yourself in the reflection. Some are more keen on what the car represents and others are all about optimum performance. You seem to be somewhere in the middle. IDK, I just got that impression. If I'm mistaken, you have my apology. Not here to fight. In fact, I've lost pretty much any energy I might have had for this thread.
If memory serves me well, Jack upgraded to a 3.6 for about what your budget is. I believe it is a 964 based engine and not a 993. Prices are up these days, I grant you that.

Good luck on your endeavor.

Yep, Jack has a basically bone stock 3.6 in his lightweight 911 and it’s a 964 engine, so no varioram and about 260hp. Because he knows how to drive it so well, his lap times would smoke most people here in a 700hp new GT2RS.

That is what we are trying to explain to you about Porsche cars. And I suggested a stock 3.6 in my first post(?), think I was first w that. There is your answer, sorry if that wasn’t specific enough. Just don’t let some whistledick put carbs on it and you’d be good to go.

Buy a new Bullitt Mustang or better yet, a 350GT...that'll really piss off some who post here. :D

Put Jack in a GT2RS and he will bare-assed spank his former lap times (once acclimated to the car).

I do not think that one needs to settle for low power and slow acceleration/straight line speed in a vintage 911; not cheap or easy but they can be built to haul ass in situations other than just corners.