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RSBob's question is interesting.

There was a multi-country agreement in place that delayed Iran's nuclear ambition. Now the agreement is dead and there is no delay.

This is going to get very ugly very quickly.

If people think North Korea is a problem, Iran will be a hundred time worse. I don't see the current administration handling these problems in way that protects the USA.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RSBob View Post
A better question might be What’s the deal with the President walking away from the Iranian Nuclear Agreement and potentially getting us into another Iraq-like conflict when he originally promised us to get all our troops out of the Middle East? If he had staid the course none of this would be happening, just like Iraq.
Because Iran was taking the money and developing nukes.

The agreement was accelerating their development compared to what Trump put in place after walking away.

Last edited by Tervuren; 05-15-2019 at 04:21 AM..
Old 05-15-2019, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 1990C4S View Post
RSBob's question is interesting.

There was a multi-country agreement in place that delayed Iran's nuclear ambition. Now the agreement is dead and there is no delay.

This is going to get very ugly very quickly.

If people think North Korea is a problem, Iran will be a hundred time worse. I don't see the current administration handling these problems in way that protects the USA.
There was an agreement that guaranteed Iran a nuclear weapon. I don't see how it gets much worse than that. No snap inspections on military sites suspected of conducting nuclear testing... but yeah.. they're complying where we can inspect. No restrictions on ICBM's or the testing and development of them. Hey! What could possibly go wrong?

As for the present back and forth... just posturing at this point. Nothing new.
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Last edited by cabmando; 05-15-2019 at 04:22 AM..
Old 05-15-2019, 04:20 AM
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I wonder what Mattis, Kelly, et al think about Trump's CIC skills?

I can not offer an opinion....that's not my world....but I sure miss them .
Old 05-15-2019, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Fly Mach .86 View Post
Which doesn't literally mean "death to America" but if you took some time to study other cultures you might know that.
Hard to interpret it some other way.

Inform us what you think it means......
Old 05-15-2019, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc View Post
My opinion is no US troops should set foot in Iran. They hate us and all we stand for . Always have . Ratchet up sanctions and let it be . We have MUCH bigger issues at home to try and solve . As an example I'm waiting for affordable health care . We need massive infrastructure building/rebuilding . The list is endless .
This, keep some forces there to protect US registered ships. Let the Iranians be dealt with by whatever country is attacked. It is 100% not our problem if they attack some foreign countries ships. Let them deal with it. We are not responsible. Crank up any sanctions we can.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Hard to interpret it some other way.

Inform us what you think it means......
It means kill anyone who's an infidel. If he knew anything about other cultures he'd know that not all of them are peaches and cream in a liberal paradise....
Old 05-15-2019, 05:43 AM
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Season 2, episode 7 wag the dog manufactured crisis to entertain the weak-minded reality TV populace.

It's going to be expensive. Hope China will loan us more money to pay for the great production values. Ratings will be great.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:49 AM
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In response to ^,

Is the general public really paying that much attention?
Old 05-15-2019, 05:51 AM
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A little history illustrating some of the how and why the US-Iran relationship approaches beyond repair.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/692259096/new-npr-podcast-examines-the-animosity-between-the-u-s-and-iran
Old 05-15-2019, 07:13 AM
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From page 32 of the script, a team has started to dust off the USS Maddox. The Persian Gulf has been chosen over the Gulf of Oman which didn't do as well in audience testing.
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:21 AM
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https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-foreign-policy-20190515-story.html
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavulon View Post
A little history illustrating some of the how and why the US-Iran relationship approaches beyond repair.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/692259096/new-npr-podcast-examines-the-animosity-between-the-u-s-and-iran
Great link and a good summary of major events. Kinser's book "All the Shah's Men" is also a solid and easy read and covers a lot of stuff that isn't in the podcast, especially about Kermit Roosevelt and the types of people he was associated with in Iran. Highly recommend it.

"The Shah" by Abbas Milani is also a great book, if a little dry. It covers many of Mohammed Reza Pahlavi's personal and political struggles.

It's refreshing to see the conversation has stayed mostly civil up to now.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:40 AM
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Donnie knows, like most that if an Iranian is talking he's lying.

its not a bad thing. Its simply, their culture. They are bully's. That is until someone stands up to them. Like most bully's they are cowards.

Donnie put the hurt on these criminals and the sanctions are finally taking their toll.

At some point we are forcing them to fight or back off.

Like China, NK and others we have rolled over for so long these leaders are not sure if the American people have the will of their POTUS.

While Donnie takes on real world problems the clowns in the destroy american party are concerned about windmills and global warming. Sad.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:55 AM
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The Iranians might have a grievance when a foreign country uses a coup to install a puppet dictatorship in order to allow outside oil companies to not pay royalties to the poor country being exploited. Then they have all overseas banking assets seized. Then have a civilian flight 655 shot down right off their coastline. Then there is the more recent Mossad destroying power stations and assassinating generals and scientists thing. Among a few others.
Old 05-15-2019, 10:04 AM
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Four ships attacked, allegedly by Iran or Iranian actors.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tervuren View Post
Affordable healthcare, what does this mean?

This is like saying, affordable cars.

You get affordable cars by cutting down on features and options.

The same applies to the cost of healthcare.
Not exactly. We have extraordinary inefficiency causing US healthcare to cost 16% of the GDP (2nd highest cost of any industrialized country). Far too many middlemen in insurance, pharma, and durable medical equipment, and insurers making treatment decisions rather than Drs and patients.

For equivalent quality medical care at 4% GDP look at the Singapore system. Patient choice, no free ride, and efficient delivery.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-19/u-s-near-bottom-of-health-index-hong-kong-and-singapore-at-top

As to Iran? I suspect they are simply testing our resolve. If they make an unprovoked attack on our ships in the Gulf, treat them like the Russians treat Somali pirates and send them to the bottom. This is how we dealt with imminent threats to our fleet back when our leadership had balls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7fma0EmTD8
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Last edited by Cajundaddy; 05-15-2019 at 12:37 PM..
Old 05-15-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cairns View Post
It means kill anyone who's an infidel.
And anyone who doesn't follow their religion is an infidel. Hence 97% of all Americans should be taken out by mass genocide.
Seems like a peaceful co-existence with them will be no problem.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cajundaddy View Post
Not exactly. We have extraordinary inefficiency causing US healthcare to cost 16% of the GDP (2nd highest cost of any industrialized country). Far too many middlemen in insurance, pharma, and durable medical equipment, and insurers making treatment decisions rather than Drs and patients.

For equivalent quality medical care at 4% GDP look at the Singapore system. Patient choice, no free ride, and efficient delivery.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-19/u-s-near-bottom-of-health-index-hong-kong-and-singapore-at-top
We do not seem to disagree.

Our cost is driven by what we want in place and desire to achieve.

If we desired lower cost as a priority, we could get there easily by changing what is offered.

Insurance brings "peace of mind", but comes at a cost.

We have conflated insurance with healthcare plans.
Old 05-15-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tervuren View Post
We do not seem to disagree.

Our cost is driven by what we want in place and desire to achieve.

If we desired lower cost as a priority, we could get there easily by changing what is offered.

Insurance brings "peace of mind", but comes at a cost.

We have conflated insurance with healthcare plans.
I'd say we have significant differences. Singapore has some basic safety nets in place but they have a very free market healthcare delivery system that puts decision making in the hands of Drs and patients. In the US we have a rigged healthcare market that severely limits patient choices. "We" have very little say in the healthcare delivery system here. This is driven by a lot of soft money and powerful lobbyists to keep the status quo in place. "We" are left with healthcare delivery at 4x the cost for equivalent care in Singapore. Choices are great when you are actually free to make them.

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?cycle=2018&ind=H
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:21 PM
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