Do tariffs on them = taxes on us?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

China ain't the good guys.

You put together a list of things that are important and China is going to be on rhe wrong side of the equation. It is that damn simple.

Free or fair trade. Not China. Forced tech transfer and joint ventures if you want to build a factory. 15% tariff of autos. They force us to jump through hoops to get a tiny foothold but want easy access to our markets.
Enviromental standards? Lowering CO2? Not China
Less military spending? Their goal is to be the power by 2050 and using our money.
Fair wages and a safe workplace? Forget it.
Open press with no censorship? Laughable.

We don't want to acknowledge the facts. We would rather not know. We just want lower cost. We want to hold our on shore companies to the highest standards and rhen turn our backs on those same standards when it comes to offshore production.

Capitalism, and C-suite Corporate America, doesn't care about good guys, in fact the combination of the two pretty much dictates only bad players, just measured in degree. But really, there's no such thing as good guys and bad guys in capitalism; that's just a trope dreamed up to mentally move masses. Advertising works.

There's also no such thing as forced tech transfer, another dreamed up concept only to elicit emotion. No one, and I mean no one, not even shareholders, ever forced any company to do business in China. You know what did: Greed. Pure and simple.



"Enviromental standards? Lowering CO2? Not China
Less military spending? Their goal is to be the power by 2050 and using our money.
Fair wages and a safe workplace? Forget it.
Open press with no censorship? Laughable."

I'm not sure what your list means. Are you saying the United States should forcibly export and impose its value system on other countries?

The mental gymnastics people are doing to justify Corporate America's greed over the last 40 years is quite simply, pathetic. Don't be mad at the Scorpion, it is what it is. Be mad at the Turtle.

The U.S. has its way of doing business. China has its ways. Corporate America took advantage of those ways for short term, "personal" gain. Now through an elaborate emotion-based advertising campaign to scare, anger and shore up a political base, we want to Nation Build China to suit our needs. Give me a ******* break.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

The U.S. has its way of doing business. China has its ways. Corporate America took advantage of those ways for short term, "personal" gain. Now through an elaborate emotion-based advertising campaign to scare, anger and shore up a political base, we want to Nation Build China to suit our needs. Give me a ******* break.

I do not take it that way at all, I look at it as hypocrisy, yes greed driven hypocrisy.

We, the American consumer, are all willing to turn a blind eye to all the atrocities in China in exchange for cheap stuff.

We hold our own corporations to a high standard in regards to pollution, human resources and freedom of speech, yet are perfectly willing to ignore the lack of all these things in China.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Jims5543

I do not take it that way at all, I look at it as hypocrisy, yes greed driven hypocrisy.

We, the American consumer, are all willing to turn a blind eye to all the atrocities in China in exchange for cheap stuff.

We hold our own corporations to a high standard in regards to pollution, human resources and freedom of speech, yet are perfectly willing to ignore the lack of all these things in China.

We hold our corporations to a high standard because we demand a high quality of life here in the United States. We don't hold Chinese companies to a high standard because it's, uhhh, not our country. We don't live there. In fact, wait for it, they have a different government than we do. Really, google it, it's true.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

We hold our corporations to a high standard because we demand a high quality of life here in the United States. We don't hold Chinese companies to a high standard because it's, uhhh, not our country. We don't live there. In fact, wait for it, they have a different government than we do. Really, google it, it's true.

I agree 100% China is not America.

I think it is hypocritical that people will happily buy from them, ignoring the fact that the people who made that cheap item are being treated like animals, that the factory that cheap item is being made in is pumping out pollution with no regard for the environment.


But, it is China and as long as they are polluting over there and treating people poorly there, we are OK with that.

We hold ourselves to a higher standard, but are happy to ignore those values when we can get cheap crap.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I’m afraid you are right. Chinese leadership is relatively immune to public opinion. Their president is president for life. The Chinese people have suffered in the past and will be forced to suffer in the future if it’s necessary. National pride will not allow them to be bullied.
On the other hand, We have an election in 18 months and the Chinese know it. If the tariffs cause enough pain here we will elect a regime that will end them. China has little incentive to knuckle under to Trump and every incentive to maximize the pain from the tariffs. This is a war they will win.

This is a war where both lose. We will NOT win this battle imo.

Foreign interference in elections....legally .

They can simply crush our economy (thus goes the world) a few months before election daze if they choose....

It's the economy Stooooooopid....

Trump will NOT bully China with tariffs and win....

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Because Capitalism.

We aren't the world's mom or babysitter or school teacher.

I do find it odd that you blame the American consumer who just wants to live their life and not Corporate America. There's something implicit wrong with that thinking. It's like blaming the victim. Feels dirty to me.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by KC911

Trump will NOT bully China with tariffs and win....

Trump is bullying China precisely to win. His base isn't known for being all that bright. They respond well to fear. The tariff war is just a new version of Mexico paying for the wall. Nothing more.

Or did you mean win against China?

[Sooner or later]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/police-fire-tear-gas-hong-kong-protesters-tensions/story?id=63651958


Meanwhile, the Hong Kong Professional Teachers' Union, the city's largest educational union, has announced an island-wide strike in protest against what they've described as an "evil" law.


Concern has been mounting in recent years in the semi-autonomous region that the central government in Beijing is undermining the freedoms guaranteed to its citizens under the terms of the territory's 1997 handover from the U.K. to China.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Concern has been mounting in recent years in the semi-autonomous region that the central government in Beijing is undermining the freedoms guaranteed to its citizens under the terms of the territory's 1997 handover from the U.K. to China.

Therefor tariffs? You are the first to suggest the tariffs are about anything but trade.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by fintstone

If you had not been such a yellow pussy, you could have served in the military as well. That welfare teat you live off of is the true government teat...as, unlike the military...you actually earn none of the "other people's money" redistributed to you.

You can take the poster out or PARF, but you can't take the PARF out of the poster.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Therefor tariffs? You are the first to suggest the tariffs are about anything but trade.

Nope

Just showing that they ain't da good guys.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Trump is bullying China precisely to win. His base isn't known for being all that bright. They respond well to fear. The tariff war is just a new version of Mexico paying for the wall. Nothing more.

Or did you mean win against China?

Why sling such feces at 95+% of the Pelican forums membership? That's harsh, bro!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Why sling such feces at 95+% of the Pelican forums membership? That's harsh, bro!

PARF is 95% alt right, that's true. The overwhelming majority of "vintage" 911 ownership, in my experience, is definitely not Trump's base.

How ya doin' weirdo?

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

PARF is 95% alt right, that's true. The overwhelming majority of "vintage" 911 ownership, in my experience, is definitely not Trump's base.

How ya doin' weirdo?

Doing pretty good, Mr. Plates-a-lot!

Correct, I should have specified PARF membership, although I think that is actually closer to 99.6% far-spastic-right.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

You can never have enough cadmium.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Because Capitalism.

We aren't the world's mom or babysitter or school teacher.

I do find it odd that you blame the American consumer who just wants to live their life and not Corporate America. There's something implicit wrong with that thinking. It's like blaming the victim. Feels dirty to me.

You're in business... you know full well the average consumer will cut you out for very little in cost difference, quality be damned. Most consumers are PAINFULLY short sighted.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

He probably approves of staying in business and feeding his family. The pain of these tariffs is not equally distributed. While consumers may pay an extra $20 for a set of tires, Farmers and small manufacturers are seeing their livelihood disappear. If you want to berate someone for not curing the world’s ills try someone who is minimally impacted and yet still complains.

Don't believe everything you read in the "news". I don't know how your part of Ohio is, but around here there are a lot of fields with Maxi rolls of tile waiting to go in the ground. Haviland Drainage products isn't laying anyone off and isn't slowing production. A local business that makes grain wagons and seed runners isn't laying anyone off or slowing production. My brother sells GPS systems for tractors as well as drainage plows and laser systems, he's having a good year. I've talked to several farmers and asked "did you really need the bailout?" I haven't had one yet say "yeah".

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cabmando

You're in business... you know full well the average consumer will cut you out for very little in cost difference, quality be damned. Most consumers are PAINFULLY short sighted.

I agree with Shaun. Consumers aren’t going to China, they are buying from US retailers. Retailers are competing to sell the cheapest crap because they think it’s in their best interest. I don’t blame consumers for buying it for the same reason.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Don't believe everything you read in the "news". I don't know how your part of Ohio is, but around here there are a lot of fields with Maxi rolls of tile waiting to go in the ground. Haviland Drainage products isn't laying anyone off and isn't slowing production. A local business that makes grain wagons and seed runners isn't laying anyone off or slowing production. My brother sells GPS systems for tractors as well as drainage plows and laser systems, he's having a good year. I've talked to several farmers and asked "did you really need the bailout?" I haven't had one yet say "yeah".

In my part of Ohio prices for soy were down 7% last year and down another 3% this year. Glad things are doing well up north.

[island911]

Originally Posted by speeder

Yes, additional tax on us.

Yeah? Does China sell anything we can't get somewhere else?

Tariffs put pressure on external sellers to lower prices, to compete with countries w/o tariffs.