2009+ Jetta TDI - manual or automatic?
 

I've wanted to replace ky Accord for ages and by earlier this year I'd settled on either a mid-2000s Forester/Outback or a 2010+ Jetta wagon, preferably TDI. I prefer the VW for fuel consumption reasons. I prefer a manual in everything, but there are about 20 automatic TDI wagons for sale for every manual so considering an automatic makes shopping a Lot easier. I prefer a manual even for a vanilla car but after 7 years of an automatic accord I've decided I can probably live with the right automatic. But I don't want a dog. How does the performance and fun aspect of a TDI with an automatic compare with a manual? If its deficient (slow) is it the kind of thing that can be easily fixed for a few hundred dollars with a tune? I don't know whether the auto trans in a TDI is the same design (parallel-shaft with an automated two-stage clutch) as the DSG found in the GTI, but I do like the DSG in my friend's 2012 GTI

had an '09 TDI DSG sportwagen. Really appreciated the entire car. Did not miss having a manual in it at all.

I’ve got a 2017 Ford Escape. It’s been a very good, reliable car with plenty of power but it has an automatic with shift paddles (that are slow to upshift/downshift). It’s the first automatic I’ve ever owned and I’m just not crazy about driving an auto, even in the bumper-to-bumper traffic I sometimes have to drive in.

I may be trading it in for a VW Golf Alltrack with a manual trans.

The 18 and 19 Accord is available with a 6 speed manual...or 10 speed auto.
32nd year of being on C&D 10 best car list.

I have a 2010 JSW Tdi 6-speed manual, bought it from Pelican RSBob. It’s an extremely well maintained, clean car but the performance and fuel economy is disappointing after the VW dieselgate “fix.”

You mention a “tune,” which aftermarket companies sell for the car but then you lose the awesome extended warranty from VW that is part of the “fix.” It’s seriously a Catch-22, I know that I would love this car if it could even be returned to it’s original software, (much less the aftermarket tunes out there), but the warranty is extremely valuable because these cars have some potentially catastrophic mechanical issues that would be completely covered by the warranty.

I’ve already used the warranty twice for CELs that turned out to be bad sensors and a glow plug, not *end of the world* issues by any means but would have been dealer repairs out-of-pocket. If you think that these are DIY friendly cars, think again. I can do basic maintenance on it like oil changes and brakes but you cannot even scan it w/o VAGCOM’s proprietory cable and software, which is cost prohibitive for DIY owners.

Other than the fuel mileage, which is infuriating because it’s the main reason to own a TDI, it’s an OK car. Sporty handling like all modern VWs. FWIW, the DSG cars I test drove seemed quicker. The DSG is awesome, as long as it doesn’t ever fail on you. Then it gets expensive. They seem to be robust transmissions, though. They require an expensive service every 45k miles, I think.

https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/what_to_buy.htm

VAG is $200 I have had it for 13 years and it has paid for itself tenfold.

I think the DSG has a $400 transmission service every 40k miles.

I miss our TDI, some of the best cars I have owned and easy to work on.

That link is not for the cable. That’s the expensive part.

Ah, thanks for Mentioning the warranty that VW gives you post-fix. I don't think I knew that, or at least I didn't know how extensive it is. For sure I'd take that over whatever power increase an after,artery retune would give me. A stock DSsG TDI can't be any slower, or slower-feeling, than a 4cyl/auto 2003 accord, which is good enough. (I mean, my 911 is probably slower than a new V6 Camry but do I care? No.) I'm aware that they're not as DIY-friendly as an Accord (or Subaru) but I think I can live with what I know. Then some ridiculous thing happens to my friends GTI and I wonder why I think I want a VW, but our friends TDI JSW was perfectly reliable? I am informed by both that a VAGCOM is mandatory for people like us so I factor that into the cost of purchase. I find the DSG service ridiculous but am told it is DIyable, you just have to buy exactly the right oil and only that oil.

Never use the throttle to hold a DSG equipped VAG car on a hill.,always use the brake otherwise it can get very expensive.

Have a 2014 Passat with the auto. Bought it after the recall, 20k on it fully loaded including the Fender sound system. 14k for a 30k car. Drove it today 200 miles through the San Diego back roads with over 3000 feet of elevation change at a spirited pace and averaged 39 mpg. A winner in my book. The warranty the EPA made them give is so over the top it is worth the cost of the vehicle. My buddy has a 4 door golf TDI stripper model that gets an easy 42 mpg, the Passat is a heavier car.

You're going to want the manual unless you want to drop coin on the fluid on the dsg...
My 13 tdi had the standard. Replaced the gear fluid at 80k, sold back to volkwagen at 120ish... I will buy another one.

What potentially catastrophic mechanical issues are you referring to?

https://store.ross-tech.com/shop/vchv2_ent/
Sorry this is the page for the cable VCDS- HEX-V2

My 2014 DSG GTI developed an issue with the transmission after I had fluid changed. Many times to the dealer and they couldn’t figure it out. Could feel something slipping below 40 miles an hour. Finally dealer says could be condensation? Couldn’t stand the frustration so I sold it. Had 5 VWs and all had significant head scratching issues. I like them but I’m done with them.

Hpfp failure. There's an aftermarket filter and bypass you can buy. That will not send shrapnel down the whole system. However, when I tried to buy the kit a couple years ago the guy that makes it was no longer selling due to the scandal....

Exactly. You cannot buy that aftermarket fuel line filter anymore. Like IMS failures in earlier water pumper Porsches, it’s hard to find out the exact frequency of it but it’s definitely a real thing that has happened to many owners. And when it does, you probably have an expensive paper weight at this point.

The new warranty from VW covers it, as well as any other fuel or emissions related failures which is most everything on these cars.

I dunno. They redesigned the part three times.
People make a cp3 replacement for the cars if you're paranoid, and high mileage.
Cp3 is a very good injection pump that is used in the medium duty domestic diesel trucks.

Hpfp only contaminates the fuel system. Ims kills the engine. Still rare. I highly doubt anyone here will experience the failure... (Hpfp that is)....

Wouldn't mind getting a newer TDI but my 1996 Passat TDI Wagon
is smog exempt here in Calif.

Been driving my 04 C240 Benz wagon for comfort about a year
and the TDI just sits but it sure seems to cost
a lot in gas driving the Benz.

The stick shifts do seem to be more trouble free in VW's.

Just going to leave this here.

https://www.smythkitcars.com/jetta-golf-ute

The 40k trans service is kind of ridiculous, but I don't drive this car (my Accord or whatever) more than 5k a year, probably not even that, so if a car I buy has had the trans serviced relatively recently it's going to be a long, long time before it's due again. I want a modern car that's practical (meaning a liftgate, which the Accord isn't) and can fit bikes and other big piles of stuff and is a good long-distance highway car and whenever I decide to pass on my Saab I can just have N-1 cars for a while, which will be kind of nice, until I finally give in and buy the Bavaria I've always wanted. And when I'll do I'll still have a practical car. I live in Chicago, where "hills" don't exist, so no worry about holding the car with the trans, but thanks for that reminder.

I had a 2011 TDI Golf I bought new. Manual. Loved it but then the scandal came. At about 85k the DPF cracked. I traded it in with 115k, IIRC.

Then I went and bout a Jetta Wagon - 2012 - I am staying away from the diesel. Instead went with the 2.5 5 banger and a manual. Timing chain. Very solid daily driver but not as peppy as the TDI.

My advice is a) definitely a manual - DSG service is expensive and if it goes, you are out $$$. A manual will be a clutch job at most up to 200k. b) Reconsider the diesel. The fuel mileage may be a bit better, but Diesel is more at the station, you run special oil and there is a ton of **** that can break that a normally aspirated gas engine doesn't even come with.

My two cents and GL with the hunt!

G

What is a DPF? :confused:

Also, did you own the 2011 TDI before and after the dieselgate “fix?”

If so, can you comment on any difference is performance and fuel economy? Thanks.

This is amazing. I’m getting between 26 and 28 mpg, (carefully hand calculated), in mixed freeway/city driving w a lot of 6th gear freeway cruising included. I have a case open w VW right now, I’ll report later on the results. The car shows no fault codes and has been checked over by the dealer twice now. My immediate previous DD was a 2006 Jetta TDI sedan w manual and I got exactly 10 mpg better in identical driving patterns and driving habits, (I go to the same place everyday). :mad:

I would go for the lowest cost of ownership. Manual.

Diesel particulate filter. Basically takes care of the soot without having the need for additional emissions equipment. No def essentially. Which is something the Chevy Cruz diesel of the same years were not able to do....

As for my experience with vw gas engines. They are not as reliable as the diesel. The 2.0 tsi is hot trash in my opinion. Impressive numbers for a 4 banger. But requires premium, and overall longevity is not there...

I feel sort of drawn to the 2.0 FSI & TSI becuase in terms of performance it's really nice. In my friend's 2012 GTI it's great. And every once in a while you'll find basically a GTI wagon, a loaded Jetta SW with that engine. But I'm apparently rightfully wary of reliability issues. Last week his car died while his wife and son were in it. Apparently a fuel pump controller that was three revisions behind or something. And trans simultaneously in limp mode. I mean, fuel pump *controller*??

Our ex-TDI SW owner friend loved his car but is also a fan of the 2.5 - not very exciting but apparently responds well to breathing. I would only consider this in a manual, however, and it's hard to find a high-spec wagon with a 2.5 and a stick and a sunroof. As long as I get over 30mpg on highway trips it would be OK with me. Diesel where I live is about the same as premium unleaded and with, say, +10mpg I'd be coming out a bit ahead in fuel costs over the Accord on regular. Also, torque!

Diesel Particulate Filter. They like to crack. It doesn't shut down the car but it will not pass smog because the EGR filter now gets clogged with soot. I chose to drive it with the cracked DPF until I was able to do the buy back. I did not do the fix. I ended up with a comparable gas car with lower miles and 10k in my pocket.

Here the DPF and the EGR filter etc.

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=471736&page=2

Cheers,

G

Right, DPF. I’m just weak on my acronyms for these cars. Ford Powerstrokes? Ask me anything. :)

My “fixed” tdi, (which is really ruined), has a warranty that covers that part and every other emissions or fuel related item until 2022, as long as no one modifies the car in any way. It’s a Catch-22. :(

DPF in all diesels respond well to the occasional Italian tune up. .Just potte]ing about at low revs is what kills them prematurely, and that includes highway driving at the 2 or 2.5 K revs that modern diesels are geared for at highway speeds in top gear. A hard blast in third gear up a highway for a couple of miles is the remedy

Finally drove one of these yesterday - I was visiting friends in Madison, WI and they have a 2013 JSW TDI with a DSG and about 40k miles. Gotta say there wasn't much of anything I didn't like about it. Throttle tip-in from a stop feels a little odd, like nothing is happening for about half a second, but overall it was really nice, especially in sport mode. Their 18yo son is driving it but wants something else when he leaves for college - if they sell it, I may buy it!

This was my experience also.